Little Bill Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I shot in a club match recently where I had an AD (my fault 100%) during the stage. The RO stopped me, made the situation safe, and then decided that it wasn't going to be a match DQ and then let me re-shoot. I told him that I would do what ever was fair (DQ or re-shoot) and tried to be graceful about my error. The situation was that I was moving between two ports performing a slide-lock reload on my production G34. The reload went fine (finger out of trigger guard), and I tabbed the slide release to chamber a round. The problem was that I didn't feel the slide rub the web of my thumb slightly (removing some skin), causing the gun not to go fully into battery. I arrived at the next port, attempted to begin the next string of fire, pulled the trigger (nothing happened), and realized that I had a malfunction. I saw that the slide was not fully in battery, so I took the palm of my weak hand and smacked the rear of the slide to put it back into battery. The problem was that the operator (me) hadn't removed his finger out of trigger guard fully, and was a little too exuberant with the smack, causing the weapon to discharge down range into the top of the berm (or close to the top). At first, I didn't know if my finger had touched the trigger or whether the striker slipped off of the trigger bar. Later, after trying to replicate the AD, I am relatively sure that it was the finger not the firearm. In trying to better understand the rules, why is / isn't this a DQ? Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 AD's that meet certain standards (while engaging targets, not within 3m, not over the berm, in a safe direction, etc) are not necessarily DQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 wiz, this is a unsafe gun handling DQ in my opion. see rule: US 10.3.2.1 Any discharge/detonation prior to commencement or while loading, reloading, unloading or during remedial action in the case of a malfunction. you didn't have a "AD" since the bullet didn't leave the the berm area, or strike within 3m hope this helps. lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ditto to Lynn, not AD but unsafe gun handling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 ditto agian, i once had to DQ a guy for just the same thing. while trying to clear his malfuntion he yanked to slide and the gun went off. you could tell it scared him. to make things worse the round went in to the A zone of the target across the table. i still gave the DQ he handled it well. later ask how it could be a DQ if it hit the A zone. i said it was unsafe gun handling doesn't matter where it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 And the winner of the set of steak knives is ............. Lynn Jones! Yes, a discharge during correction of a malfunction is indeed Unsafe Gun Handling under Rule 10.3.2.1. The term "Accidental Discharge" has specific definitions under Rule 10.3.1.1, however the term "AD" is often applied incorrectly to other types of "unintentional" discharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 he he, i love knives. i have about 141. lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thanks for all of the replies. I am still an infant in the sport and this webiste is fantastic. Now I have to find a decent set of steak knives for Lynn.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 No need. Our old mate Lynn is from the Great State of Tennessee, so he doesn't use cutlery 'cept for whittlin' ..... But, hey, look who's talking. My wife still puts a cork on the end of my fork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 vince, you're not supposed to talk about you wife's cooking. i'm telling on you! and stop running with sissors. lynn jones owner of "Three Fingers Wood Working" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRW Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Ok, I have another question along the same lines... at a match two weeks ago the shooter was transitioning between target arrays. Just before he got to the second array his pistol discharged. There was a brief pause by the shooter, and then he completed the stage. The round impacted safely on the burm, similar to a miss on the target(s). No DQ’s were issued. (After speaking to the shooter he confirmed that the pistol fired prematurely.) I was wondering how you would have handled this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Sounds like a DQ under unsafe gun handling (By transitioning, you mean he was moving from one place to enother, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 GRW, Good follow-up question and the answer is found in Rule 8.5.1. If you're moving from Target Array A to Target Array B, provided your gun is up "on aim" and you're "scanning" for your next target, a discharge in a safe direction while moving is not a DQ offence. However if you're moving (like the wind) from Target Array A to Target Array B but your gun is down or lowered "off aim", you are subject to a match DQ under Rule 10.3.12. Hope this information helps. Trivia: This rule was revised to it's current form as a result of an Arbitration conducted at the 2000 (or 2001?) Australian National Championships in Melbourne, where yours truly was Most Venerable Grand Pubah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Vince hit it good as always. Gun up in shooting position, ready to engage targets, no DQ. It may scare the shooter, but the RO's job is to follow the rules, not guess why the shooter reacts to a shot. He may have paused for many reasons, not just because he was suprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRW Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Thank you for the replies. In this case the shooter was doing as Vince describes and the rules seem very clear in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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