Grip safety

[kimmie]

O.k. - that all makes sense and was pretty much what I thought - the grip safety keeps the trigger from being able to be pulled. But one more question - you said that 'if the thumb safety is engaged.....' What if the thumb safety is not engaged and you try that drop test - will a properly working grip safety keep the gun from firing?????

[Dan Sierpina]

O.k. - that all makes sense and was pretty much what I thought - the grip safety keeps the trigger from being able to be pulled. But one more question - you said that 'if the thumb safety is engaged.....' What if the thumb safety is not engaged and you try that drop test - will a properly working grip safety keep the gun from firing?????

Maybe!

[Irishlad]

On the S&W's and Kimber II's, the grip safety also enables a mechanical FP block.

So, if functional, I don't see how it could AD if dropped...assuming working parts and grip safety not "pushed in". You have a plunger that physically blocks the FP.

[ima45dv8]

Kimmie,

If your gun does not have a firing pin block/safety, yes the gun *could* fire if dropped. From what I've read (I won't test that with my guns), it would have to land just right to do so, and is difficult to replicate. The firing pin (if not blocked) could move forward after an impact and strike the primer, causing the gun to fire. Colt started producing guns with their Series-80 firing pin safeties in (you guessed it!) the 1980s, and personally I won't have one in a gun I use.

My position isn't based on being a traditionalist who doesn't like modern advancements in safety, or as one who believes a good trigger job can't be done with those extra parts installed (it can), but rather that it's a poor design that has proven potentially dangerous. Here's how...

The hourglass-shaped FP block is moving up and down by pressing the trigger. When all goes well, the firing pin moves past the narrow portion of the block which is deactivated/lifted by pressing the trigger. Sometimes, the timing or travel of that block is not perfect based on several factors.

What can (and has in 2 guns I have/had) occur is the shoulder of the firing pin bounces off the firing pin block, peening the edge ever so slightly. Over time this can raise enough burrs to cause the FP block to stick in place. Whether that place is up (allowing the gun to fire) or down (blocking the FP) would be hard to predict. I personally don't want a gun that won't fire, either in a match, or especially in a seriously degraded social situation. YMMV.

Some other manufacturers use other methods to block the firing pin and move the block for firing based on pressing the grip safety instead of pulling the trigger (Kimber comes to mind) but I don't own any like that and can't comment on whether they have issues of their own.

...Mark

[Jeff686]

OK, not to beat a dead horse...

But, only for sake of discussion:

What if you live in California and buy a new 1911 style pistol, then pin the safety? Have you broken a state law?

I thought California had a 'drop test' type affair, where certain safety criteria were required for sale of new firearms. I don't live in CA, so I don't know if this is an urban legend or not. Didn't some manufacturers have to change/add features to their products to become "California Legal"?

[esskay]

In California, most handguns that are sold as a DEALER SALE are required to be on the state's "Roster of approved handguns." Guns on the roster have been submitted for drop tests and may also be required to incorporate other safety devices like loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect. "Dealer sale" in practical terms means a retail purchase from a gun shop or a shipped firearm (whether from out-of-state or in-state). So sometimes you will see specific "California" versions of some guns -- for instance, Ed Brown has specific CA models where they've installed a different firing pin/spring.

Handguns sold as private party transfers directly between individuals (but of course in CA done via an FFL with a 10 day waiting period) do NOT have to be on the approved roster.

There are other exceptions to approved list too, e.g. people moving to California can bring "unapproved" guns into the state (as long as they are compliant with other CA state laws like the assault weapon ban, e.g. no threaded barrels).

Once you own/possess a handgun in California, you can make any modifications you want to it (remove magazine disconnects, swap out a top end, change calibers, paint it pink, remove firing pin safeties, etc) -- again so long as you aren't then breaking any other applicable laws, notably the assault weapon ban.

HTH.