38 Spl Major Load?

[3gunnah]

Help!! lookin for a good 38 major load for 158 LRN for ESR. Any help would be great!!

[revchuck]

In .357 Magnum brass I use 6.8 grains of Unique lit by Federal 200 primers. It goes + 1100 fps from my 4" guns. I have too many .38s to even think about loading .38 Special major.

[redwoods]

You can try 4.1grains of Win231 with a 158grain lrn bullet.

I shot it for cowboy action until I realized it was a hot load, then I went to 125gr Lead TC with 2.8gr Bullseye.

I don't know what it chronos, but it is a good shooter, you can find the load info in the Lyman relaoding manual.

[RePete]

4.0gr/Bullseye only gives a PF of 124 out of a 4" barrel.

I use 4.2gr/bullseye.

You would need more brass (longer) and copious quantities of a slower burning powder, like the load given by revchuck.

I don't load to major.

[gm iprod]

Using 38SPecial +P cases you can get to about 1050fps in a 6".

The quickest around seems to be H4227 with about 12grains. I got 1045fps average (highest velocity in the group came out at 1070fps). This obviuosly is not enough fo rMAjor.

I am sure with some tinkering with 4227 or Longshot etc you may get 1100fps but I suspect pressures are up a little. In theory you can use LilGun, H110, or Win 296 in a 38Special +P case and get somewhere around 1350fps with a 125grainer. Enough, JUST, for Major.

There is no load data around for LilGun and H110 in a 38Special.

Work up gently and look for all the nasty signs. Use Small Rifle or Magnum Pistol Primers too.

Edited April 26, 2007 by gm iprod

[Carlos]

If you look at the Lee book, they list a +p 200 grain LEAD load at 800 FPS. That is 25 FPS shy of major - and as a published load, you can assume they were looking at it being safe in the weakest .38s out there. If your gun is a really strong & modern design in good condition & you load as long as you can, you might just squeak by shooting Major from a .38 special.

But I'd use a .357 or .45 ACP if for nothing other than peace of mind.

[3gunnah]

Thanks guys I am shooting this out of a 686 4" cut for clips. If that helps I am not as worried about pressure if i stay below 357 loads ?? thanks

[cooper_999]

Thanks guys I am shooting this out of a 686 4" cut for clips. If that helps I am not as worried about pressure if i stay below 357 loads ?? thanks

3gunnah,

measured load: 5,8grs VV N350, Case .38SPL G.F.L (Fiocchi), 200grs H&N LRN copper plated "high speed", OAL 38,4mm, FED 100

Pressure was between 2199 bar and 2459 bar (8 shots) Testbarrel length 152mm, Temp. 20° C, V1 between 301,0 and 306,0 m/sec

Because of this pressure, this load is only for .357Mag guns!

This load made major in my 586 4" (PF ~176) without problems! I´ve shot that load for 4 or 5

years....

(in between, there are 6" barrels in my 586´s because of accuracy and recoil issues)

regards,

Sascha

[professor]

I'm shooting a 6" 686, and came up with these major 38Spl loads using Titegroup and Federal small pistol primers

With 158 gr. Ranier RN plated bullets, 5.3 to 5.4 gr Titegroup.

With 158 gr. RN Lead, 5.1 gr Titegroup. [sportsmens Warehouse - Meistner's cast RN lead 158 gr.]

To save a little money, I'm shooting the lead in practice, the plated at matches.

Now I'm also looking for a 'soft' primer to replace the Federals, because Federal small pistols are scarcer than hen's teeth. I'm down to my last 3K.

I'm shooting these from a 357 magnum revolver. I wouldn't shoot these in a 38Spl revolver.

Edited May 26, 2007 by professor

[revchuck]

Stan - You might want to reconsider using TG with .357-level loads. I used it for a while in my M27 with 125 grain bullets (a worst-case scenario) and now have a friggin' Marianas Trench above the b/c gap. It even extruded metal to the side of the top strap. Shoot, it even gas-cuts with .38 +P loads, though not badly enough for me to stop using it...yet. If I could find something else that could make a 130 PF with plated bullets from a 4" barrel while staying within published data and burning as cleanly, I'd switch.

[professor]

Stan - You might want to reconsider using TG with .357-level loads. I used it for a while in my M27 with 125 grain bullets (a worst-case scenario) and now have a friggin' Marianas Trench above the b/c gap. It even extruded metal to the side of the top strap. Shoot, it even gas-cuts with .38 +P loads, though not badly enough for me to stop using it...yet. If I could find something else that could make a 130 PF with plated bullets from a 4" barrel while staying within published data and burning as cleanly, I'd switch.

I worried about gas-cutting to the top strap when I first noticed it shooting a Mod 19. It appears to be self-limiting, because once you get a little groove there is more clearance for the cylinder gap gases to dissipate without more cutting. With the 686 I'm shooting now, I've put 25K through without a sign of top strap gas-cutting. [What was more troubling with the M19 gun was the timing went off, and it started spraying lead shavings out the cylinder gap when I'd do rapid double-taps. Since fixed, but I went to the L-frame 586 and later 686 for a little more metal all around those major PF loads.]

The "ring around the collar" in the cylinder bore holes is unsightly, but not deep, and apparently they are not affecting accuracy at all. My thought is that the gases don't impinge on the inside of the cylinder bore until after the bullet fully exits the shell casing [38Spl]. There is the rest of the cylinder bore plus the entire barrel to stabilize the bullet before it goes on its merry way downrange. Shooting .357 ammo, you have the same situation, only those gases behind the bullet come out a lot closer to the end of the cylinder bores, and maybe more out the cylinder gap.

That said, I experimented with trying to make a Major load using 130 gr jacketed RN bullets in a 38 Spl casing. Couldn't do it. Too much pressure in the casing, to the point where the casings were tearing apart half-way up the cylinder portion, and leaving a little sleeve inside the cylinder bore. End of stage, because you couldn't load another moonclip in the gun with that there. The pressure was scary. That meant moving to a heavier bullet [those 158 gr RNL and plated Raniers] that works fine at major loading. I might try a 200 gr bullet, except the extra lead is more expensive, and I can't find a source of plated or jacketed RN bullets in .357.

I also reduced the powder load with 158 gr bullets to about a 130 PF for the PSA Shootout, and they were really smooth shooting with the full lug barrel of the 686.

Edited May 28, 2007 by professor

[anachronism]

Try 13.5 gr of 2400 with a cast bullet. I'm getting about 1200 fps from my 4 in 686. Another possibility: 5 gr of Red Dot. I've never chrono'd this load for some reason, and I really need to. It's off the charts for 38 spl, so work up to it. This load shoots like a laser for me, and is incredible in 2 in barrels. But it is over the line, and you use it at your own risk. I'ts been safe for my guns for a long time.