Low Turnout Of Wheelgunners

[AustinMike]

I finally mustered the courage to shoot the 625 I built up last year at a local USPSA match the other day. I sucked, but it was fun. I didn't try to be competitive at all and shot just for the fun of shooting an awesome gun. I'll be doing it again. I don't shoot big matches due to time and $ factors, but I figured I could get classified on revolver and shoot the local matches here and there to do my little part to help support a division that I think really needs to be there. Revolvers are pretty rare around here and I got looks like I had an extra head growing out of my hip. Lots of double-takes!

[hopalong]

AustinMike,

That is great!

If all we can do is shoot at the club level please do so as often as possible. The classifier scores go in and improve the data base. Plus that also gives more numbers for USPSA to see.

AustinMike, see if you can't talk Roy and Dave into a challenge......them with 6 in their bottom feeders, and you with your 625........bet they don't take it.

Now let's get out and burn some powder.

Hopalong

[Waltermitty]

Quote:

Here is the information you have been waiting on – squad lists, shooting matrix, etc.

To date, I have just over 100 entrants in this match. The division breakdown is:

40 - Limited 33 - Open 13 - Production 6 - L10 4 - Single Stack 1 – Revolver

Endquote:

Am I the only one going to Arkansas this weekend?

[hopalong]

Walt,

I guess so,

Wonder where the Razorback wheelies are?

Mike, Steph, Jess, and the rest..................

You not able to talk Bubber into makeing the trip?

I'll see you there, still on the autoloader kick but won't be long.

Hop

[Bubber]

Quote:

Here is the information you have been waiting on – squad lists, shooting matrix, etc.

To date, I have just over 100 entrants in this match. The division breakdown is:

40 - Limited 33 - Open 13 - Production 6 - L10 4 - Single Stack 1 – Revolver

Endquote:

Am I the only one going to Arkansas this weekend?

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

[Viggen]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

[Waltermitty]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

Yeah, Roger told me about his formula for making a small fortune in the cattle business.

First, start with a large fortune, then go into the cattle business...

[pskys2]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

Yeah, Roger told me about his formula for making a small fortune in the cattle business.

First, start with a large fortune, then go into the cattle business...

He'd probably have better odds making money by stopping in Vegas, than with cattle!

One thing, he'll probably have to find a couple of Registered Angus Breeders to check out the Bulls! What a trip, shoot, then shoot the bull, then see the bull.

Probably carries the Open Revo in his truck for Varmint Control.

[Waltermitty]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

Yeah, Roger told me about his formula for making a small fortune in the cattle business.

First, start with a large fortune, then go into the cattle business...

He'd probably have better odds making money by stopping in Vegas, than with cattle!

One thing, he'll probably have to find a couple of Registered Angus Breeders to check out the Bulls! What a trip, shoot, then shoot the bull, then see the bull.

Probably carries the Open Revo in his truck for Varmint Control.

ICORE power factor only annoys the varmits around here...

[pskys2]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

Yeah, Roger told me about his formula for making a small fortune in the cattle business.

First, start with a large fortune, then go into the cattle business...

He'd probably have better odds making money by stopping in Vegas, than with cattle!

One thing, he'll probably have to find a couple of Registered Angus Breeders to check out the Bulls! What a trip, shoot, then shoot the bull, then see the bull.

Probably carries the Open Revo in his truck for Varmint Control.

ICORE power factor only annoys the varmits around here...

Thump!

Just fell out'a'ma'chair!

[Bubber]

That means I got a chance at the Local OKC match then. My plate is going to be pretty full this month with the Ok REVO /ss sectional, Sunflower Classic then a trip to Kalifunny for the IRC...

You wealthy Okie cattle barrons have all the fun...

Yeah, Roger told me about his formula for making a small fortune in the cattle business.

First, start with a large fortune, then go into the cattle business...

He'd probably have better odds making money by stopping in Vegas, than with cattle!

One thing, he'll probably have to find a couple of Registered Angus Breeders to check out the Bulls! What a trip, shoot, then shoot the bull, then see the bull.

Probably carries the Open Revo in his truck for Varmint Control.

ICORE power factor only annoys the varmits around here...

Thump!

Just fell out'a'ma'chair!

Hey Hey!, My power factor is... uhh nevermind....

[Viggen]

Bubber, since you'r going to boost the power factor a little, make sure you get out to AZ for the Rio Classic. I assume you still run the k-frame for USPSA - right? Or can you hold on to a 625 for a couple of hundred rounds? It's not fun, but is it doable?

Either way, I sure hope you come out this year and bring some of those midwestern guys that your dragging along to the IRC.

[revchuck]

Well - Another low wheelgun turnout is A4, where I'm 20% of the rowdy rounders - and Hopalong, Steve Sturm and Waltermitty are most of the rest of us. (The remaining squadded shooter is a guy by the name of Jonathan.) JM isn't on the list, nor is Kay, though I kinda doubt that they'd miss a major match they could walk to.

I'm squadded with a couple of GM LTD shooters named Taran B and Dave S - gosh, I WONDER who THEY are.

[vrmn1]

I wonder why Jerry don't shoot area 4?

[hopalong]

Jerry and Kay are in San Antiono that weekend for the Smith & Wesson Team Challenge..........Kind of earning his keep.

Area-4 tradionally has less than a dozen shooters. seems like 2005 had the most in recent years 9 I think....But I do know that that years A-4 was the HARDEST match I have EVER shot with any kind of handgun (and you'll get to see a repeat of a few of those props again)

I think the reason A-4 tradionally is low is the match is always National championship quality stages (or harder) so those that attend do so with higher capacity type handguns.

I personally have always enjoyed shooting A-4 with a wheel, except the year my wheel went out of time on the second stage of the match. Luckily it was only 1 cylinder so I could plan for 5 shots, but just didn't know when.

I'll see you guys there, shooting Friday PM, Saturday AM.

Hopalong

[revchuck]

I think the reason A-4 tradionally is low is the match is always National championship quality stages (or harder) so those that attend do so with higher capacity type handguns.

I've downloaded and printed out the stages, and only two of the 12 really bother me - one has a moving plate rack, when I have problems with stationary ones, and the other is a fixed time standards with where you have six seconds freestyle with a 50 yard target, the same time SHO at 35 yards, and the same time again WHO at 20 yards. The other ten aren't too bad when divided by six. There are a good number of six round arrays, so the PD, L10 and SS shooters will be relatively close to us on the number of reloads needed.

[hopalong]

Chuck, remember those are timed fire strings.....a shot overtime costs 1 procedural plus the best hit on target. If this is something you haven't done I would suggest going over it just to get the times down so you don't go over.

Also, if you only fire 4 shots in the allowed time there is no miss penalty for the two not fired.

Hop

Now back to the topic.

it looks like the MS classic and the Kansas shootout will again combine for the highest number of wheelgunners shooting the same weekend until maybe the Nationals.

Get out and SHOOT !!!!!

[hopalong]

Memory may have led me astray on the timed fire rules, will check the green book and inform.

Will be a great turnout of wheelgunners this weekend with the Kansass and Mississippi matches combined. Good luck out/up there.

Hopalong

[Waltermitty]

Chuck, remember those are timed fire strings.....a shot overtime costs 1 procedural plus the best hit on target. If this is something you haven't done I would suggest going over it just to get the times down so you don't go over.

Also, if you only fire 4 shots in the allowed time there is no miss penalty for the two not fired.

Hop

Now back to the topic.

it looks like the MS classic and the Kansas shootout will again combine for the highest number of wheelgunners shooting the same weekend until maybe the Nationals.

Get out and SHOOT !!!!!

OT shots are one 5 point procedural each. The best hits are scored unless you shoot too many, then they count as extra hits just like Virginia Count. Extra hits count, extra shots do not.

9.2.4 “Fixed Time” – Limited time, limited number of shots to be fired,

stipulated number of overall hits to count for score.

9.2.4.1 A competitor’s score is calculated by adding the highest

value stipulated number of overall hits, minus penalties.

The overall stage results are not factored, and competitors

are ranked by the actual nett [sic] points achieved by them.

9.2.4.2 Fixed Time must use paper targets exclusively and they

should, where possible, be disappearing targets.

9.2.4.3 Fixed Time must only be used for Standard Exercises,

Classifiers or Short Courses.

9.2.4.4 Fixed Time must not be used in Level IV or higher matches

except in respect of a Standard Exercise (see Rule 6.1.2).

9.2.4.5 Fixed Time courses of fire do not incur failure to shoot at or

miss penalties.

9.4.5 In a Virginia Count or Fixed Time Course of Fire:

9.4.5.1 Extra shots (i.e. shots fired in excess of the number specified

in a component string or stage), will each incur one

procedural penalty. Additionally, during scoring, no more

than the specified number and highest scoring hits will be

awarded.9.4.5.2 Extra hits (i.e. hits on the scoring area of scoring paper targets

in excess of the total number specified in the stage), will

each incur one procedural penalty. Note that hits on hard

cover and/or penalty targets are not treated as Extra Hits.9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. firing the correct number of rounds in a

string, but shooting at fewer targets than specified in the

string), will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence.

This penalty will not be applied if the written stage briefing

specifically authorizes stacked shots.

US9.4.5.3 Stacked shots (i.e. shooting more than the required rounds

on a target, but shooting at fewer targets than specified in

any string), will incur one procedural penalty per target not

engaged in any string. This penalty will not be applied if the

written stage briefing specifically authorizes stacked shots.

9.4.6 In a Fixed Time Course of Fire:

9.4.6.1 Overtime shots (i.e. shots fired after the signal to cease fire

has been given), will each be penalized the value of the

maximum scoring hit available on that target, except in the

case of disappearing targets.

US 9.4.6.1 Overtime shots (i.e. shots fired after the signal to cease fire

has been given), will each be penalized the value of the

maximum scoring hit available on that target, except in the

case of disappearing targets. If the time runs more than .30

seconds over the set time, it will be considered overtime.

For example, if the time is 5.00 seconds, a shot at 5.31 seconds

would be considered overtime.

[hopalong]

Thanks Ken,

Now I don't have to look it up.

Hop

[cliffwalsh]

Thats news to me.. I thought overtime shots were -10

[Waltermitty]

Thats news to me.. I thought overtime shots were -10

You're not alone, that's why I cut and pasted US 9.4.6.1 for everybody. Paper target must be used for fixed time courses (9.2.4.2) and the maximum value of any scoring hit on paper in only 5 points.

I've seen it scored incorrectly at pretty high levels.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Waltermitty

[pskys2]

I think every sport treats the Overtime Shot by penalizing you the single highest scored shot possible. As if it never happened. USPSA even gives you an extra .30 seconds before they penalize you.

[professor]

I think the rationale on the extra time shots is that you end up not being penalized at all as long as all your overtime hits are alphas.

Unless they are disappearing targets, just take your time and try to get all alphas, until you're done or you run out of bullets. If they are disappearing targets, shoot until they disappear. You might get lucky and streak a bullet across the face of a target from the correct side.

If there's a mandatory reload involved, I would concentrate on getting all alphas allowed before the reload, and don't even bother with the reload.

At the Nationals in 2004 Stage 17 was a time COF. Reload Standards had a three target array to be engaged at 4 distances, in 4 separate strings, with 5 seconds per string. At 25 yds, the string was 1@free, reload, 1@free. Closer distances used SHO, free hand, WHO, after the reloads.

http://www.uspsa.org/results/2004/US_Handg...d_Standards.pdf

[For the actual match, they modified the third string at 15 yds to be 1@free, reload, 1@free, from the PDF that said 2@free, reload, 1@free].

If you ignored all reloads, and just took the 12 shots BEFORE the reloads, scoring all alphas, you would have gotten 60 out of 120 possible points. Of the 17 revo shooters, Jerry scored 79 points, Dillard Winters scored 62 points, and you would have come in third on the stage with 60 points, at 75.9% of Jerry's score.

Obviously, just about nobody actually followed this protocol, and nobody but Jerry and Dillard scored more than the readily available 60 points.

I came to this realization much too late. Live and learn.

[Lee Bell]

Well it doesn't look very impressive at all, Kind of disheartening really.

I can tell you why I don't shoot revolver, but that may not apply to everyone.

First, I do shoot Single Stack. It's enough to shoot in one division where I'm not recognized. I don't need the aggravation of two.

Second, and more important, is what goes on in club level matches. All stages seem to be designed to be 10 + 1 friendly. Most are designed to be 8 + 1 round friendly. I don't think I've ever seen one that was 6 round friendly. When every point of every stage has at least 4 targets that have to be shot twice, given a choice, why would I choose to shoot a gun that only holds 6, forcing multiple static reloads? If I don't shoot revolver in practice, I'm not likely to shoot it in matches.

Lee