Campus Shootings

[AikiDale]

The students and teachers when faced with a leathal assailant must fight. An armed assailant may kill a few kids before he goes down but we need to begin to teach our children how to respond.

Everyone simply picking up the heaviest object at hand, books, keyboards, monitors, desks, etc., throwing it at the assailant and swarming him is really the only way for a room full of students to save themselves when escape is not an option. First student or teacher who gets a pencil into the assailants eyes wins the hero medal.

[bberkley]

When Kip Kinkel went on his murderous rampage at Thurston High School in Oregon back in 1998, it was another student that rushed him and took him down, preventing further loss of life.

The whole thing just makes me sick. Are we raising our children to be sheep? They have no sense of a survival instinct or the notion to fight back?

This guy would have killed folks in any way he could have, the tool he used will be the fixation of the media and lawmakers. If he had locked people in a room and set the place on fire with gas, would they be banning gasoline?

I fear for our future.....

[Merlin Orr]

I do believe there are schools where the story would have been different.

IMO If this same guy had went wolf at " Wrong Side of the Tracks Central High School" he would have been beat, cut and perhaps shot to death before he got to his second victim.

[Jake Di Vita]

I know if I were in the situation....homeboy would have a desk flying at him within about a second followed closely by an 175 pound very pissed off Italian.

But then again....that's how I was raised.

[bayoupirate]

You all make very good points.

It was mentioned in the news coverage.

Police tactics dealing with intruders or threats on campus have changed since Columbine.

Without saying more, I'll just say the mantra for SRO's and other law enforcement is "eliminate the threat"

Barricading is the best official plan because the quality of the barricade will keep out just about anyone. Exiting 1500 kids into hallways is like standing on the line and calling "Pull" then waiting for a spread of skeet to fly. Exiting just provides shooters with more targets.

Don't foret Pearl, Miss. The killers there pulled the fire alarm and waited outside for their classmates to exit, just as planned and practiced, to provide easy targets.

Jake is right. Bottom line is any plan you put into place to thwart killers, can be countered or evaded by the very determined. There's strong speculation that the VT killer may have planned the first killings to be a distraction that would draw resouces away from the second scene.

I didn't mention a contengency for an active shooter at a recess or change of classes, but in that instance AlkiDale has got the right idea. Use anything you have to swarm and incapacitate the shooter.

One thought here. CELL PHONES. Most schools do not allow electronic devices, for many reasons, cheating being one and actually being at school to learn not text your friends being another. Louisiana actually has a state law, which is occasionally enforced. Many parents insist that their children are so incapable of being self-sufficent that it's too inconvenient for their kids to be with out one. Or that they "Feel Safer" if their child has a way of contacting them.

Here's the true life safety issue. Teacher are allowed to have cell phones for emergencies. If there is an emergency on my campus and I decide I need to use my cell phone to communicate important information to officials about injuries or threat locations ie. A student is wounded, bleeding excessively, shocky and needs immedate medical attention to prevent loss of life. I'll never get through because every kid in the school will be on their phone calling home to let their parents know that something is happening at school, even if they have no clue what is actually happening. If I do actually get the call out, police, fire, and EMS will have to drive very slowly through the myriad of traffic and other car crashes caused by parents now swarming the school to be sure their kids are safe.

I sure hope the kid i'm trying to save doesn't bleed out waiting for help while some other kid is chatting with their girlfriend about how stupid it is to be kept on lockdown for soo long and what their plans are for the evening.

We have much work to do. Then again, it's not schools that have changed it's the culture we live in. We've become a very impersonal, fast track, you owe me, I'm better than you, and life is cheap culture. IMOHI Schools haven't changed, family life or the lack of of family life for so many kids has. Kids with problems needs to learn how to work through them with skills that they can use the next time there are problems. Instead their parents take them to a doctor for a pill. Medications are wonderfull tools, but can not alone solve any mental problems.

Okay enough rambling for now.

[Mr Glack]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045900&page=1

If you have a sec, vote in the above poll.

Thanks for the link. When I voted it was running about 78,000 to 25,000 "NO" don't relate it to gun control. Cause for hope?

[reneet]

quote from WSJ.com Opinion Journal Link

"But there is another side to this argument. Longtime readers may recall the lead item in our Jan. 18, 2002, column, which concerned a shooting spree at another Virginia institution of higher learning, the Appalachian School of Law. The gunman, Peter Odighizuwa, killed three, and probably would have killed more but for another student's gun:"

[SiG Lady]

Yessss...!!!

[turbocomp38s]

Sorry to say that lot of lives were lost. My prayers goes to the family and to the victims, but for the mainstream media to push and start this nonsense gun control laws is a lot of B.S.

What kind of gun control are they talking about? This is purely political and blaming NRA, our president for what had happened is purely nonsense.

[turbocomp38s]

disregard

Edited April 21, 2007 by turbocomp38s

[bayoupirate]

Well,

Returned from my workshop today.

Sorry to report that I can't offer any new information.

Presenter was excellent FBI Agent. The agent has interview almost all of the school shooters from the last 15 years or so and most of their families and friends.

Nothing about VT was allowed to be discussed at this time because it's still considered an active investigation. Understandable.

The focus of the course was "Threat Assessment".

Mainly to identify situations, events and students that may graduate to a violent incident on campus. Identifying and Assessing threats are proactive solutions to preventing violence rather than responding to it.

IMO it's the only real way to address the real problem.

Almost always after the fact, we hear about statements made by the killers before the event, but find that they weren't acted on.

If you're a parent,

Do you know who your child's friends are?

Does your child come to you if they have a problem?

Do you monitor or limit what they watch on TV, Computer & Video Games?

Can your child cope with fustration and Failure rationally?

Is your child "connected" to your family, school, church?

Is you child a bully? or bullied? or intimidated by others?

While there is no one profile for school killers, many of the parents of the child killers didn't have a clue that their child was depressed, bullied, was facinated with death, in a cult, in a gang, or taking drugs.

Sorry I can't offer more than I could have last week, but I did get some new data and tools that I can use proactivley.

PEACE

Edited April 24, 2007 by bayoupirate

[Chris Keen]

Just saw a statistic on the news tonight ............... "the VA Tech. shooter fired 170 bullets in a time span of 9 minutes."

:o

This kind of news scares me about potential future "gun bans" or "hi-cap mag bans".

[Chris Keen]

Good grief .... what's this world coming too ???

CINCINNATI -- A University of Cincinnati student was arrested for making what school officials said was a violent threat.

Karsten Taylor, 38, is charged with inducing panic after authorities said he called the university and demanded to have his grades changes.

When they would not comply, officials said Taylor told them the Virginia Tech incident was nothing compared to what he would do.

[DarkSmileyX]

Just saw a statistic on the news tonight ............... "the VA Tech. shooter fired 170 bullets in a time span of 9 minutes."

Yeah but what were his splits?

[North]

Just saw a statistic on the news tonight ............... "the VA Tech. shooter fired 170 bullets in a time span of 9 minutes."

Yeah but what were his splits?

Way to soon for that coment.

But really he must have reloaded atleast 10 times. I can't belive that someone didn't jump on him.

[Nemo]

Last year a VT student wrote THIS.

Having two teenage boys in school this occurrences really frustrate me. I can only teach them what to do or how to react during such an emergency and pray that my teachings sink in good.

[davidball]

But really he must have reloaded atleast 10 times. I can't belive that someone didn't jump on him.

I thought about this too. But think about it - if you are cowering behind cover while he is shooting, how long does it take you to 1) realize the shooter has stopped shooting in order to reload 2) decide to charge him in an effort to stop him 3) get up from your cowered position 4) reach the shooter 5) disable him to the point that he can't shoot you.

Even a rank amateur can reload a Glock or Walther in that amount of time.

Last year a VT student wrote THIS.

Having two teenage boys in school this occurrences really frustrate me. I can only teach them what to do or how to react during such an emergency and pray that my teachings sink in good.

Chilling (and frustrating) in light of the recent event.

[DarkSmileyX]

Way to soon for that coment.

Yeah I know, somebody else would have done it anyway.

But really he must have reloaded atleast 10 times. I can't belive that someone didn't jump on him.

It is surprising, but it's hard to say what we would do in the same situation. Maybe someone did try...

Edited April 26, 2007 by DarkSmileyX