Reloading The S&w .40

[jmark308]

Is it time to start discussing reloads? Specifically reloading for the S&W .40. I have come across much information on the web about reloading the .40 and am not sure I fully understand the best approach. One school of thought, espoused by Henning, seems to advocate fast powders, e.g., Clays, N-310 and loading “long.” But it isn’t clear (to me at least) what “long” is. A second group (with Arnt Myhre as a prominent advocate) urges reloaders to stay away from Clays and warns that reloading the .40 is fraught with the danger of over pressure.

I am currently loading Armscor nickel plated brass with 4.6 gr of Titegroup using WSP primers and Montana Gold 180 gr full metal jacket bullets to a length of 1.140”. This gives me velocity between 965 and 980 fps and a average power factor of 175. This load functions flawlessly in my EAA Witness Match with either a 10 or stock 12 lb spring and there are no signs of overpressure. I know I could turn this down a bit and still make major and will be doing that soon. What are other .40 shooter using and just what qualifies as “long.”

[sinnsyk]

Great topic. Let's bring it on.

My load that I've used for the past couple of years is:

4.6 grains of Clays

180gr Armscor Bullet

Nickel Armscor Brass

Winchester Small Pistol

OAL 1.180"

An alternative to Clays if N-310 which is very similar burn rate.

I know Arnt's opposed Clays. Brian, on the other hand is not. He shot Clays up until his last competition days.

What I experience with slower powders is a prolonged recoil. For a non-compensated pistol, I prefer a quick burst rather than having a longer build-up of gases. Yes, it does increase the pressure and it can separate cases. I've had a couple of case separations with both N-310 and Clays, BUT only with shitty, old brass. Speer has sheared a couple of times for me. With Armscor brass I've never had any problems and I completely trust my load.

I don't load hot, I load right there on the critical PF limit. With a minimum 165PF I load to 168-169, mostly not to have to deal with unnecessary recoil. I'll double and triple check my loads chronographing on different days and will tweak 0.1gr up/down. It seems that with my Witness Limited 40 it'll be somewhere between 4.5 and 4.8 grains of Clays. Brass vs Nickel varies and powder lots, primers etc.

I know a lot of guys shoot N-320 which is a bit safer powder. I wouldn't go any slower than that, personally. If you're worried about pressure and case separation, N-320 is a great alternative.

"LONG" to me is 1.180" - 1.200". In the EAA 40 mags with Armscor 180 bullets 1.180" seems to be a pretty favorable 'max' length. With the Grams kit I've had no problems at all with 1.190", but my buddy here in town for some reason though that was slightly too long and when he switched to 1.180" it stopped binding in his mags.

Bottom line would be: push the envelope has hard as you can, but reliability comes first. It'll mess you up more than a tiny recoil advantage.

[CAB33]

Do you have any experience with 180 grain Zero JHP in the Limited?

Any recommendations as far as powder and OAL?

[Jaxshooter]

My Limited load is as follows:

5.0 gr VV N-320

180gr Zero JHP

wsrp or wspp

1.175 OAL

171 PF

This is the only load I have ever used in Limited.

[sinnsyk]

Cab33;

Jax' load is perfect. Use small pistol primers for 100% ignition.

[CAB33]

So is TiteGroup a no no with once fired brass?

[sinnsyk]

I don't know, never used it. Anybody?

[Carlos]

So is TiteGroup a no no with once fired brass?

No, not at all. Titegroup is safe. It is widely used in Limited and can safely reach major using book loads loaded much shorter ("Normal" .40 OAL - around 1.125 to 1.135" OAL) - which is much shorter than the typical Tanfoglio Limited gun or S_I can handle.

-Advantages are:

- its fairly fast so it does not recoil much - about on par with N320 recoil outdoors (see below). When loaded to major, its quite clean. Key is to keep the pressure up. At minor, it leaves some soot. Its cheap. It meters great - about like W231/HP-38. Available everywhere. Lots of "book data" if that maters to you. And its not position sensitive. Produces great accuracy.

- Disadvatages are:

- it burns very hot. Highest nitro content of the double-based powders at 37% (BTW, all V V are single base, i.e. NO nitro). With exposed lead base FMJ, coated or bare lead bullets, TG produces more smoke than anything else due to the heat (no issue here if you use JHP or TMJ'd bullets). Also, you might need to be indoors to see it, but it seems to have more of a "blast" at the muzzle than V V or clays. Not more recoil - just more blast. Outdoors, you likely won't see it at all, especially if shooting fast. Due to the heat produced, there is some speculation that it might lead to increased throat erosion, though I think that is still just speculation. If you are using a polygonal rifled barrel (like a Glock) there have been instances of tumbling TMJ'd bullets and TG.

Overall, a very good powder if you insist on sticking only to published data.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Carlos

[CAB33]

That is some great info, thanks!

[CAB33]

My Limited load is as follows:

5.0 gr VV N-320

180gr Zero JHP

wsrp or wspp

1.175 OAL

171 PF

This is the only load I have ever used in Limited.

What lb. recoil spring are you running with this load?

[sinnsyk]

In all of my major 40 s&w loads for my Elite Limited I run a 10lb spring. When the new Limited Custom (skeletonized slide), I will try the 8lb spring. Think that's going to be the cat's meow.. For us that already have a 2006 or older Limited 40, there's nothing wrong with making a few cheese holes in our current guns... I know I'm going to do that to mine here very shortly.

[Flexmoney]

So is TiteGroup a no no with once fired brass?

TG...so good, I eat it for breakfast.

(I haven't bought new 40 brass in years.)

[CUTTER1]

I USE W231 @ 5.0 GR WITH 180 FMJ MG/

IN 2 OF 3 GUNS (SV CUSTOMS WITH BRILEY BARRELS)TO MAKE 170PF.

A LITTLE DIRTY AND A LITTLE REVERSE TEMP SENSITIVE.

THIRD GUN RUNS TITEGROUP 4.6GR AND A 180 FMJ MG @ 168PF ANY TEMP.

VERY ACCURATE AND CLEAN.

ALL ARE IN WINCHESTER CASES AND WSPP.

USING REM 71/2 BR RIFLE PRIMERS HELPS WITH THE W231 BURN CLEANER.

[RePete]

4.7gr/Titegroup with the 180gr Frontier CMJ.

I have an HS6 load too. (Forget the charge, I'm a 1000 miles from home).

These are my test loads, they both chono almost the same.

CUTTER1:

Please stop shouting, turn off your caps.

[Glen517]

I use vv N320 4.6 grains at 1.13 oal Zero 180 JHP, Zero FMJ, Precission Delta FMJ. All with federal primers and once or more fired brass. Is a very consistant load 171 pf +or - .5 every place I've been from Fla. to Wis. different times of the year. At least 10000 rounds of it so far and counting. I hope this helps. All rounds have been through and XD .40 tac

[sinnsyk]

Thanks guys,

Glen. Glad you included the OAL as some shoot the short 40 and some the long 40. It makes a big difference; see Cab's N-320 charge of 5.0 vs Glen's 4.6.

So, please everyone sharing loads, also include OAL or specify short (typically OAL <= 1.135") or long (typically OAL <= 1.200").

[Nemo]

Somewhere in these boards I read about differences between new and old Tanfo 40S&W mags. Some advised using 10mm mags to be able to load longer (1.200"). What would be the optimum length for the new 40S&W mags?

My sons will soon be switching their STIs for Tanfoglio 40's and I need to know before making the investment in a bunch of mags.

Thanks!

[sinnsyk]

Nemo,

Supposedly you can get 40 S&W mags with or with the spacer (lip). The 40 mags with the inside spacer is intended for factory 40 ammo only (1.135" OAL). Chances are if you order mags from EAA without specifying you'll get these. So, either specifically say you want the 40 mags w/o the spacers or order 10mm mags which are dimensionally identicaly, just stamped differently. Sorta solves the problem of getting things mixed up.

On my shop I have specified all of it:

Tanfoglio Magazines in Henning's Shop

You can order competition USPSA mags (140mm) that holds 21 rounds ready to go, or factory 40 S&W long (1.200") or short (1.135") or 10mm etc. For Limited guns you'll need the alu pad to fit inside the magwell.

So it breaks down to this:

Competition USPSA 140mm mags; 21 rounds = $69.00 per mag

Competition IPSC 126mm mags; 18 rounds = $65.00 per mag

Factory mag w/ basepad and factory follower/spring = $45.00 per mag (order mag and pad separately)

[Nemo]

Thanks, Henning!

Let's wait and see what the future brings.

[CAB33]

I just got the CED M2

4.5gr of Titegroup

180gr Montana Gold JHP

wspp

1.180 OAL

165 PF

4.6gr of Titegroup

180gr Montana Gold JHP

wspp

1.180 OAL

167 PF

4.7gr of Titegroup

180gr Montana Gold JHP

wspp

1.180 OAL

170 PF

[alellis]

Hi

Does anyone use Bullseye in .40.

al

[Land Shark]

Hi

Does anyone use Bullseye in .40.

al

Just filled the 550 with Bullseye to do 40s.

I'll report back after some range time. It'll be a week or so.

Intersted in learning from others.....

[TMFAKBFS]

I use the following combo.

190gr Privi FMJ RNFP

4,7 gr VV N320

WSP primer

OAL 1,200

or

180gr Berry FP

5,0 gr VV N320

Magtech primer

OAL 1,200

I like the 180gr Berry the best.

[JFD]

My standard Para Major Limited load:

180 Rainier Plated HP

4.70 Titegroup

1.197 OAL

Fed primers

170 PF

My standard Glock Major Limited load:

180 Precision Delta

4.50 Titegroup

1.135 OAL

Fed primers

169 PF

My standard Glock Minor Limited Load:

180 Precision Delta

3.6 Titegroup

1.135 OAL

Fed primers

138 PF

My too sluggish Para Major Limited load:

200 Rainier Plated RN

5.31 N340

1.2055 OAL

WSP primers

170 PF

Before I ever started loading the .40, I checked here and Titegroup seemed the powder to use. I see no reason to try anything else. It does smoke a hair more with exposed base jacketed bullets, but it's never been an issue while shooting, just something I tend to notice because the sun is always in my face in our practice bays. It gets the muzzle end of the gun dirty, so I make it a habit to swipe my FO front sight with my finger every couple of stages. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it dirty.

I've avoided plain Clays in this caliber, even with minor loads, just to play it safe. I did finally load up some minor PF lead loads and haven't had a problem.

Universal Clays seems to smoke less than Titegroup or regular Clays with cast bullets, but I haven't screwed around with cast bullets much in this caliber.

[Land Shark]

Finally got around to shooting the Precision bullets.

Have the 155 grn bullets on top of 5.4 grn of bullseye with a CCI primer.

A little smoky but wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been looking for it.

The precision bullets did NOT lead the barrel with the H&K USP Compact with the polygonal barrel.

Very happy with the combination, reloading more of it after lunch!