Good Reasons For A Backup Gun

[aerosigns]

Waltermitty,

Heeding your advice on the reasons for a backup gun, I used my recent windfall from S&W to buy a second 625-8 for a backup gun.

While in the process of adapting it to it's new life, I took my trusty 'A' gun out for some practice the day before the ice storm hit Iowa & Illinois.

I dropped in the first moon-load, and the cylinder wouldn't close. I inspected for a high primer or a bent moon. Nothing. Took the moon out and the cylinder closed. Used a different moon-load and it wouldn't close.

The gun would still function, but when pointed straight down, the firing pin would protrude and stop the cylinder from closing. Luckily this was the frozen fields of Illinois in February, and not the sun kissed ranges of Tulsa in September.

Waltermitty, Yaarr a Genius!

[Carmoney]

I've seen multiple C&S extended pins break, but it's pretty unusual with a factory part.

I would never willingly travel to any bigger match without a backup gun, even in Revolver Division, where we run the most reliable equipment of all.

[hopalong]

Best reason I know for a backup gun...................

Just because!!!!!!

Hop

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Waltermitty,

Heeding your advice on the reasons for a backup gun, I used my recent windfall from S&W to buy a second 625-8 for a backup gun.

While in the process of adapting it to it's new life, I took my trusty 'A' gun out for some practice the day before the ice storm hit Iowa & Illinois.

I dropped in the first moon-load, and the cylinder wouldn't close. I inspected for a high primer or a bent moon. Nothing. Took the moon out and the cylinder closed. Used a different moon-load and it wouldn't close.

The gun would still function, but when pointed straight down, the firing pin would protrude and stop the cylinder from closing. Luckily this was the frozen fields of Illinois in February, and not the sun kissed ranges of Tulsa in September.

Waltermitty, Yaarr a Genius!

By the time you find the MD to be authorized to use the back up gun, you could havethat repaired and back in the game.

A second gun is good, but spare parts are just as good.

Regards,

[Carmoney]

A second gun is good, but spare parts are just as good.

Depends on what happened to take the first gun out of service. There are plenty of things that can happen (although rarely) that cannot be readily fixed at the range. I do carry some spare parts and a few basic tools in my bag, but at a major match I'd much rather just grab my spare gun than stress over trying to fix my primary gun at some safe area. Having a spare set up to feel and shoot similar to the main gun isn't very expensive in our division.

[Waltermitty]

Waltermitty, Yaarr a Genius!

I appreciate the kinds words, they help me block the memories from those times I'm as dumb as a box of rocks.

By the time you find the MD to be authorized to use the back up gun, you could havethat repaired and back in the game.

A second gun is good, but spare parts are just as good.

A second gun *is* spare parts.

Depends on what happened to take the first gun out of service. There are plenty of things that can happen (although rarely) that cannot be readily fixed at the range. I do carry some spare parts and a few basic tools in my bag, but at a major match I'd much rather just grab my spare gun than stress over trying to fix my primary gun at some safe area. Having a spare set up to feel and shoot similar to the main gun isn't very expensive in our division.

I'm with Mike & Sam on this.

I've tried it both ways, carrying repair parts and doing repairs between stages and carrying a known 100% #2 gun.

Maybe some folks are different, and many are better Gun Plumbers than I am, but everytime I step up to the starting position with a gun I've just worked on I think "Hmm, wonder if this thing is going to run?" Anyone care to hazard a guess as to why I'm like that?

Some times the thing that breaks off is a sight, then you have to go find someplace to re-zero. I've heard of hammer studs and trigger studs breaking, and you ain't gonna fix that with a Swiss Army knife and a Leatherman at the safe table.

If all you shoot are local club matches it may be hard to justify a #2 race-ready gun, but if you take vacation, pay a $275.00 match fee for your hard-earned slot, drive/fly 1000+ miles, rent a room, add in eating out and all the other expenses of going to exotic locations (e.g. Topeka Kansas) and something important breaks on the second stage of the first day; the total cost of that backup gun can get pretty cheap pretty quick.

And while I don't necessarily consider this a primary reason, I have seen Sam give his backup gun to a fellow wheelgunner that broke down and couldn't continue the match without it. I'm sure he dines on that with that shooter even still.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Never said I was against a spare gun. I always have one and when my friend Mooney shoots the day after me I leave it with him.

The OP on this thread showed a broken firing pin as a reason for a second gun. I disagree. I can install the new firing pin in the safe are before the rest of the squad is finished with the stage. I don't just keep parts, I keep fitted parts. Once changed a cylinder stop that broke, also keep spare hammer, trigger, firing pins, springs, all tested in the gun. I find it easier on me.

Again, as I said in my post, a second gun is good but spare parts are just as good. (At least for me)

Changing a gun or sights could at some matches could be a real PITA.

5.1.7 Competitors must use the same handgun and type of sights for all

courses of fire in a match. However, in the event that a competitor’s

original handgun and/or sights become unserviceable or

unsafe during a match, the competitor must, before using a substitute

handgun and/or sights, seek permission from the Range

Master who may approve the substitution provided he is satisfied:

5.1.7.1 The substitute handgun satisfies the requirements of the relevant

Division.

5.1.7.2 In using the substitute handgun the competitor will not gain

a competitive advantage.

5.1.7.3 The competitor’s ammunition, when tested in the substitute

handgun attains the minimum power factor using the match

chronograph (see Rule 5.6.3.9).

5.1.8 A competitor who substitutes or significantly modifies a handgun

during a match without the prior approval of the Range Master

will be subject to the provisions of Section 10.6.

[Jaxshooter]

I am telling my wife I need a backup guns for my backup guns. Now I can buy two more guns!

[John Dunn]

where we run the most reliable (antique) equipment of all.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Oh great, now I have to buy another 646. That should read OH GREAT I NEED ANOTHER PISTOL! Thanks Eric

[Waltermitty]

Never said I was against a spare gun. I always have one and when my friend Mooney shoots the day after me I leave it with him.

The OP on this thread showed a broken firing pin as a reason for a second gun. I disagree. I can install the new firing pin in the safe are before the rest of the squad is finished with the stage. I don't just keep parts, I keep fitted parts. Once changed a cylinder stop that broke, also keep spare hammer, trigger, firing pins, springs, all tested in the gun. I find it easier on me.

Again, as I said in my post, a second gun is good but spare parts are just as good. (At least for me)

Changing a gun or sights could at some matches could be a real PITA.

The first rule is to do what works best for you, and if you change guns you do have to get the MD approval. It is also the match organizers responsibility to make that possible in a reasonable amount of time.

But in a race changing a firing pin (and spring? why did it break? did it damage the bushing or burr the FP channel when it went? Did it break because the cylinder skipped and it hit a case head but in the excitment you didn't notice that? etc) I'll bet even money I can get another gun approved before you can get your sideplate back on.

For me, it was just too much effort to fit replacement parts and keep them "fitted". Ignoring for the moment the difficulty in properly (and completely) diagnosing a breakdown on the clock during a match, as the miles build up it's hard to keep fitted replacement parts fitted as they ride around in your range bag.

Even in Aerosign's apparently simple breakdown, I would switch guns if it was an important match. I have learned (the hard way) that the piece that breaks isn't always the root cause of the problem; and replacing a broken firing pin may simply result in having *two* broken firing pins in your bag by the end of the next stage.

I too have changed cylinder stops between stages during a match; that's the day I "learned" I don't always properly diagnose a problem the first time. If it's a multi-day match I may try to repair my #1 gun in the evening if I have access to a range for proper testing depending on the nature of the fix. But I have also repaired guns, run at least 100 test rounds through them only to have them puke on the first stage of the next match I attend. Perhaps I have bad Karma.

Don't misunderstand my discussion of this topic with you for saying you are wrong; I don't think you are wrong. You say you carry a full set of fitted spares *and* a backup gun, and I'm a "Belt & Suspenders" kind of guy for many things as well. I've just moved "working on my gun during a match" to "Plan C" in my list of things to do if my equipment situation goes badly.

There's also the matter of pushing the envelope and trying/learning new things. With two very similar guns at your disposal, it's much easier to compare modifications. Does an FO sight work better for you than a black sight? Is Jerry's grip more natural than the stock Hogue? How long will a gun set up like mine run without cleaning before it stops?

My Wife bought me a new 625 as a backup "B" gun (bonus!) I applied the things I learned tinkering with my "A" gun plus some things I thought would make things better to prepare it for competition. Today my "B" gun is my primary and the "A" gun is relegated to backup as the off-season comes to a close. All modifications and repairs are concluded for the coming shooting season and my performance this year will not be limited by my equipment.

Even if I have a catastrophic equipment failure at the match on Saturday before the USPSA National Championship starts, I'll be ready for the buzzer on Sunday with a nearly identical gun in my holster that has several hundered competition rounds through it.

If I can get a slot.

[10mmdave]

By the time you find the MD to be authorized to use the back up gun, you could have that repaired and back in the game.

A second gun is good, but spare parts are just as good.

Regards,

For something as simple as a firing pin I'll have to go with you on that RGS, Cyl. stops also.

I bring a backup gun but typically don't carry it around the match with me.

It's your comment above I have a question about, is there a procedure to be followed if you

have to go to a back up gun

I've read the rule book (well, mostly tried too, ) and I was wondering if you could sum up

what the procedure is to switch guns.

OH !! I have a lot of those extended firing pins and do a lot of dry firing (with snap caps/dummy rnds of course)

and haven't broke one yet ?? Any body here having/had any issues with them

(one more thing to worry about)

Edited March 6, 2007 by 10mmdave

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

It's your comment above I have a question about, is there a procedure to be followed if you

have to go to a back up gun

I would suspect you would have to hunt down the MD and get his OK. Last year at AWARE, one of the open guys on my squad had his gun puke on the walk the plank stage. MD happened to be on site and allowed him to use Matt's gun to shoot his last stage. If the MD was out picking up tee shirts or his wife or his girl friend (or all three ) shooter would not have had permission for that last stage.

Dave, you saw my 8 shot die in NH at the steel match. No big deal on that match but I was still able to replace the stop and keep playing. I had a front sight go south at a S&W IDPA Winter Championship one year, again, no big deal, had a spare front sight and some. Only cost me one stage and eventually we located that Tritium front sight. Saw Jerry M at S&W one year. First stage-click, bang, click, bang bang, click. finished the stage, went to the safe table, fixed the match and kicked it up a notch so he was still first ESR.

Every match is different and with the growth of the revolver division maybe there would not be a problem. With comments I have gotten over the years about not belonging in this sport, I would rather not have to depend on someone else's decision whether I can use a spare gun or not. If they say NO, I want to be able to repair and keep trucking. Remember, they have the option to refuse. Nothing says they MUST alow you to change guns.

So, you have a second gun. Well, Murphy was an optimist as far as I am concerned. I have a spare gun and the parts to fix them both if they break and the confidence in my ability to fix them. (I actually have more confidence in my repairs than I do on my shooting)

What ever works best for each of you is what is best for you. What works for me is a belt and suspenders and a spare belt

Regards,

[10mmdave]

Thanks for the info RGS, I should have figured there would be some kind of

approval process, and also maybe have to hit the chrono again with the replacement gun ?

I know my usual 610 does +/- 170 PF with my USPSA load but barely makes it in my

610 Classic (hmmm.....I may have to work on that )

And thanks for that list of parts I think I'll add to my bag

It's your comment above I have a question about, is there a procedure to be followed if you

have to go to a back up gun

I would suspect you would have to hunt down the MD and get his OK. Last year at AWARE, one of the open guys on my squad had his gun puke on the walk the plank stage. MD happened to be on site and allowed him to use Matt's gun to shoot his last stage. If the MD was out picking up tee shirts or his wife or his girl friend (or all three ) shooter would not have had permission for that last stage.

Dave, you saw my 8 shot die in NH at the steel match. No big deal on that match but I was still able to replace the stop and keep playing. I had a front sight go south at a S&W IDPA Winter Championship one year, again, no big deal, had a spare front sight and some. Only cost me one stage and eventually we located that Tritium front sight. Saw Jerry M at S&W one year. First stage-click, bang, click, bang bang, click. finished the stage, went to the safe table, fixed the match and kicked it up a notch so he was still first ESR.

Every match is different and with the growth of the revolver division maybe there would not be a problem. With comments I have gotten over the years about not belonging in this sport, I would rather not have to depend on someone else's decision whether I can use a spare gun or not. If they say NO, I want to be able to repair and keep trucking. Remember, they have the option to refuse. Nothing says they MUST alow you to change guns.

So, you have a second gun. Well, Murphy was an optimist as far as I am concerned. I have a spare gun and the parts to fix them both if they break and the confidence in my ability to fix them. (I actually have more confidence in my repairs than I do on my shooting)

What ever works best for each of you is what is best for you. What works for me is a belt and suspenders and a spare belt

Regards,