Flexmoney Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I agree Flex, good response. Hopefully we can get this changed or worked on. I think it is ridiculous to change this. Several people like the large frame Glocks, but shoot it in 40 for the brass savings, not the down loading or anything else. Keep our fingers crossed. Get the word to your Area Director. The BOD is who will need to vote on an "official rulings" on the current rule book. And, it is the BOD that will need to approve the rulebook that is in the works. Feel free to use my post (above) in any way you see fit. Remember, we will likely need to do some educating on this...as most aren't Glock 20 shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) This whole thing has sooo many implications....Can a person legally shoot 38special from a .357 revolver? Is fitting a .40SW barrel to a Colt Delta Elite (10mm from factory) legal? Sure. It's still .357 and 10mm. I think the rules are fine the way they are. I think whoever wrote them originally had taken all t his into account (perhaps they forgot?) I do too. I just think the rules, as they are, allow the conversion. The only thing unclear in the original question was, in my opinion, the barrel length and that's already been resolved. It seems that we already have two rules in place that level the field:1) Diameter of the bullet. 2) Velocity of the bullet. Actually, we have more than that. We have all sorts of equipment does and dont's. From my perspective, none of them preclude the proposed barrel change, at least none I've noticed so far. The existing rules recognize that as long as the "caliber" is the same as factory, and you are propelling that mass at the required velocity, the laws of physics (Newton) guarantee that the recoil force will be equal. Yep. You want to see things get intesting really quickly, let's consider all the S_I .40 shooters that are loading long. Lyman says the max length for a .40 is 1.135 inches. I'd bet money that most S_I shooters load longer than that. I know I do. I shoot a .40 Kimber with rounds loaded to 1.2 inches overall. That's long enough that it won't fit in a .40 magazine. I assume others, like me, use 10mm magazines to accomodate the extra length. So, I'm shooting a round loaded in a .40 case, with the same bullet I use in my 10mm loads, at the same velocity (but different powder charge) as my competition loads for the 10mm, in a 10mm magazine in a .40 caliber gun. I'm a long way from alone. Things get very complicated very quickly when you start to interpret the rules more stringently than they are actually written. It's a slippery slope that is better avoided in the first place. Lee Edited February 23, 2007 by Lee Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I deleted my post! How did you do that? There have been several I would have deleted if I knew how. Click on the icon "edit", should be next to quote and reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The Rule book has become a problem for alot of us,every few years we have to deal with a new one.The one purposed for 2008 has raised lots of issues.I dropped out of the RO pool because of health and rule book issues,I'm just tired of dealing with every Tom,Dick and Harry's version of this or that rule .I still help out,but not as much as I use to .I'm a Glock-20 shooter with a 40 bbl ,L-10,Limited and Open .I will probably just drift into other shooting games that are not so rules dominated as I have played all the shooting games for 30+ yrs .It never ceases to amaze me how the shooting sports contunue to shoot theirshelves in the foot time after time !!! Sorry for the Rant . Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) I just looked at the 2008 draft. http://www.uspsa.org/rules/draft2008/USPSA...Watermarked.pdf It still says for Limited: Replacement Barrels - provided they are the same length, contour and caliber as original factory standard. Glossary from the 2008 draft: Caliber - The diameter of the bullet measured in millimeters or thousands of an inch. According the response of this thread by Armidon, he isn't interpreting the rules correctly. We are!!! My replacement barrel is a KKM which is: The same length as the original factory standard. The same contour as the original factory standard. The same caliber as the original factory standard. Edited February 22, 2007 by coltgov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 My G20 KKM barrel is stamped 10mm-40S&W. So is it a 10mm or .40 barrel? As far as I'm concerned, it's a 10mm barrel and will continue to shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 My G20 KKM barrel is stamped 10mm-40S&W. So is it a 10mm or .40 barrel? As far as I'm concerned, it's a 10mm barrel and will continue to shoot it. 10mm is the same caliber as .40. The rule book says that is allowed, and we are following the rules. So according to me and you, and everyone here is fine. Except Armedon who reads it another way. Now if the rule book said you only can replace with a barrel of the same caliber chambered for the same cartridge as the original, now that would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overkill Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 You want to see things get intesting really quickly, let's consider all the S_I .40 shooters that are loading long. Lyman says the max length for a .40 is 1.135 inches. I'd bet money that most S_I shooters load longer than that. I know I do. I shoot a .40 Kimber with rounds loaded to 1.2 inches overall. That's long enough that it won't fit in a .40 magazine. I assume others, like me, use 10mm magazines to accomodate the extra length. So, I'm shooting a round loaded in a .40 case, with the same bullet I use in my 10mm loads, at the same velocity (but different powder charge) as my competition loads for the 10mm, in a 10mm magazine in a .40 caliber gun. I'm a long way from alone.Lee That's an excellent point. You could easily argue that anytime you modify the specifications of a cartridge such that its no longer within its standard (SAMMI?) dimensions you're shooting a different (wildcat in this case) cartridge, or as Amidon interprets it a different "caliber" . Maybe USPSA needs to adopt a set of standard case gages to go along with the chrono station to make sure everybody's ammo is within spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Flex, What ever came of this? THanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 NROI ruled only not legal for Production. Legal in L10, Limited, and Open. If you are a USPSA member, it is also mentioned in a thread in the forum. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now