Disparity In Loads In 40 Cal

[stubbicatt]

All. I know that I have to buy a chronograph, and I will eventually. I am shooting a Glock 35, and hope to start in limited or limited 10 very soon, shooting at major velocity.

I have been shooting titegroup at 4.5 grains with a 180 grain bullet. Velocities according to the manuals ought to be in major category with this combination.

I've seen posted here and at Glock Talk loads with this combination of just under 4 grains in which the authors are claiming major power factors in the Glock 35. This just doesn't seem possible to me when one compares published velocities of this combination of components.

Is there something about the Glock 35 that makes it shoot faster than other similar weapons? Again, without a chronograph it is impossible to ascertain actual velocities, but how can a load of nearly 3/4 grain less make the kinds of velocities necessary to make major with the same components?

Thanks...

(Oh, BTW, what would be a good choice for chronograph and timer combo, CED?)

Edited February 8, 2007 by stubbicatt

[ihatepickles]

It hinges on whether you're using lead, moly, plated, or jacketed bullets. Jacketed bullets need more powder. OAL makes a big difference too, the longer the length the more powder you need.

[traxman]

ihatepickles is right. Alot of variables come into play.

My advice is to search this forum, and see what you can come up with. There really is no substitute for running your loads in your gun over a chronograph though.

As for chrono and timer suggestions, I suggest you search. I know both of these topics have been discussed, ad nauseum.

Good Luck!

traxman

[Joe4d]

THE Glock rifling will squeeze out more velocity than conventional in theory. I know nothing about glock models but most reloading manuals use a 4 " barrel for testing does your gun have a 5" also 4.5 seems high I am making major with a 172gr bullet and 4 grs granted I am using a very tight and short chambered match grade bullet and Precision bullets at 1.130 OAL

[D.Hayden]

For me.. I think my G35 can be .2 under charged compared to my SVI, and make the same Power factor. Same bullets

[stubbicatt]

It measures out at 5"+ overall, and what looks like about 4.5" from the muzzle to the throat/end of rifling in front of the chamber.

I have found a chronograph, so I'll measure tonight and see what I learn.

[boo radley]

I would be amazed if a 180gr bullet of any type made major in a G35 with less than 4.0 grains of Titegroup, without something really funky.

[dfwmiket]

I would be amazed if a 180gr bullet of any type made major in a G35 with less than 4.0 grains of Titegroup, without something really funky.

+1 there....... I have seen a couple people do it with 4.2g, and that was the exception rather than the rule. Usually I hear 4.3 of Titegroup. I know what that makes in my gun.

I'm currently loading n320 at 4.5g w/ 180g Zero JHP.... and making 169.5 with it.

-Mike

[stubbicatt]

Well, the chronograph tells me that 4.0 grains of TG is right at 850 fps. 4.5 is just over 950 fps. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but there you have it sports fans.

Oh well.

The gentlemen at the club thought I should probably stop right there, and continue to use the 4.5 grain load, but not to drop more than .1 grain to 4.4 grains else the standard of deviation would put me too close to the edge in the event of cold weather or other combination of factors.

So back to 4.5 grains it is.

One thing for sure, a chronograph is a handy tool to have. Glad the club has one and they are friendly enough to use it to tell a fella what's up.

[Harmon]

I can get major PF in the Glock 24 at 4.1 grains TG MG JHP 180 grain at 1.135"

this is with a KKM barrel and Fed 200 primers

makes 168.2 pf in my 6 inch KKM

like 165.3 in the 5 inch Kart Barrel i have in the STI

i hear 4.5 and think "damn, thats a LOT of powder"

Harmon

PS

4.0 grains TG and a 180 grain bear creek at 1.135" is Over 175 power factor in the STI...and is at 1020 fps in the KKM Glock 24..so 4.0 grains TG Does make major with that bullet in a 5 inch barrel.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Harmon

[Justsomeguy]

There is some disparity with loads depending on the bullets as one other member pointed out.

Here is a recent chronograph experience I had with a bit more titegroup than you are using.

40SW 180grn

Zero HP

4.7grn Titegroup

OAL = 1.135

Average Speed

1000.1

Power Factor

180.0

Standard Deviation

8.7

Gun = EAA Witness Match 4.75" bbl (Polygonal barrel like a Glock)

And now with a plated bullet...

40SW 180grn

Berry CP RSFP

4.7grn TiteGroup

OAL = 1.135

Average Speed

971.7

Power Factor

174.9

Standard Deviation

10.5

Gun = EAA Witness Match 4.75" bbl

As you can see, the jacketed Zero bullet, although the same weight, has more resistance in the barrel and builds up more pressure, thus more velocity for the powder charge than the Berry's plated bullet of the same weight. Also, given the same cartridge overall length, the Zero bullet, being a bit longer, provides a little less space for the powder charge which also has some effect.

So yes, you should get a chronograph least you find yourself without making major when you intended to, or having a load that is too stout for the game you are shooting.

[Joe4d]

I am with Harmon dang 4.5 seems like alot... Granted I am using a Ed brown match barrel with fairly short chamber, 1.130 OAL Precision bullets that claim to be faster because of the coating I dont know those are the only bullets I have used in barrel. With factory Para barrel was running 4.2 grs with same bullet.

[stubbicatt]

Followup question:

Just about ready to buy a Tactical Sport by CZ. I haven't bought it yet. It seems to have a bit longer barrel, AND supposedly one can load his cartridges longer in this pistol than in the Glock, and still have them go in the magazine easily and feed reliably. I do NOT know exactly how much longer, but I guess somewhat.

I understand that if one loads the cartridges a bit longer one *should* have lower pressures, all things being equal. Will velocties also drop?

Thanks guys.

[dirtypool40]

YES.

Same load with long barrel = higher velocities.

Same load with longer OAL = lower pressures and therefore lower velocities.

Most on here are saying somewhere around 4.3 for major w/ 180gr jacketed in a G35.

Compare that to my load of 4.7ish out of a 5" S_I.

The difference MOSTLY comes from slightly longer barrel, and significantly OAL, I am loading out over 1.200 and I think Glocks have to stay under 1.135. Yes, the polygonal rifling adds a few fps too.

[Flexmoney]

+1 to DP's post.

I understand that if one loads the cartridges a bit longer one *should* have lower pressures, all things being equal. Will velocties also drop?

A safety note here... Don't start shortening up your OAL just to get high velocity (and save a pinch of powder). That can get dangerous...real fast. Especially don't do so in the 40.

I've never needed 4.5g of TG to make Major with the Zero 180 JHP's @ 1.135 OAL

I've been loading minor for a year now, so my memory might be off (search if you wonder...I've posted the load here a zillion times)...

My major load for the G35 was in the 4.2g range. I remember bumping it up a tenth when my gf started shooting Limited with her G20 and KKM barrel. I don't recall if I bumped it to 4.2g or from 4.2g.

I always like to chrono before going to a big match...just to be sure.

(I wonder if TG might have changed a bit over the years ?)

[Lee Bell]

THE Glock rifling will squeeze out more velocity than conventional in theory. I know nothing about glock models but most reloading manuals use a 4 " barrel for testing does your gun have a 5" also 4.5 seems high I am making major with a 172gr bullet and 4 grs granted I am using a very tight and short chambered match grade bullet and Precision bullets at 1.130 OAL

Not just in theory. My Glock 23 with a 4 inch barrel, consistently got higher muzzle velocity than published values. My .40 Kimber, with a 5 inch barrel got slightly higher velocity out of the same rounds, but not by as much as I expected.

[boo radley]

+1 to DP's post.

I've never needed 4.5g of TG to make Major with the Zero 180 JHP's @ 1.135 OAL

I've been loading minor for a year now, so my memory might be off (search if you wonder...I've posted the load here a zillion times)...

My major load for the G35 was in the 4.2g range. I remember bumping it up a tenth when my gf started shooting Limited with her G20 and KKM barrel. I don't recall if I bumped it to 4.2g or from 4.2g.

I always like to chrono before going to a big match...just to be sure.

(I wonder if TG might have changed a bit over the years ?)

Could there be a difference, too, in stock barrels? In my G35 I need 4.5 to feel safe, and that's around 169-171pf loaded to 1.135" and Zero 180gr JHP's and Winchester small pistol primers. With Montana Gold 180gr JHP's I go up to about 4.6gr.

4.3gr of Titegroup puts me right at the edge of Major.

However, with my Glock 24, it looks like 4.3 is perfect. The chrono at the FlOpen matched the results from the chrono I'd tested at an indoor range -- 943fps / 170pf.

Weird.

Edited February 28, 2007 by boo radley