Feed Problem!

[Rather-B-Huntin]

Need some help from those in the know about these things............(I'm an OK shooter but a crappy gunsmith. Actually, as far as mechanical inclination goes, I'm a drooling retard.)

I'm thinking about buying an STI from a fellow, and he was gracious enough to let me take it home and try it out before deciding on it.

So I load up about 50 rounds to try out of it. Out of the 50, only about a dozen to fifteen actually functioned in the gun. Got a few stovepipes, but most were failures to feed ( feed properly that is. not nosedives, but going most of the way into the chamber and only lacking about 1/8th inch from going all the way).

The ammo he sent with the gun that he had loaded worked fine.

Here's where my question comes in (and PLEASE, don't just reply that I need to use the same load/components he does! I need input as to whether or not I may be able to get this thing to work in someway with my loads or if I should just let him keep the gun):

His loads = new Starline brass

My loads = oncefires resized by an EGW U die

The reason I need possibilities as to what may be causing this is that I'm not willing to buy new Starline brass to be able to shoot the gun. My loads sized by the EGW die do, and have, run like a scalded dog since day-1 in my Para (and I get oncefires a damn sight cheaper than new Starline).

Any ideas???.........

[Matt Cheely]

Measure the length of the rounds. His were probably longer.

[Flexmoney]

Does you EGW die "kiss" the shell plate ?

[Matt Cheely]

Does you EGW die "kiss" the shell plate ?

Yea, it does sound like the rounds might not be sized well enough. Don't fear though, I've never heard of a gun that required brand new brass.

[Flatland Shooter]

For the failure to feed, first compare the overall length of his bullets to yours. If your rounds are too long, the bullet may be coming in contact with the rifling in the barrel. This is not only a problem with failure to feed, but if some do feed you may be looking at a spike in pressure.

If you don't mind field stripping this gun, pull the barrel and use it to chamber check some of your reloads. If the length is OK, then they may not be resized sufficiently for this chamber. You might also run one or two of his bullets through the seater station and the crimp station of your press and note if the dies are even touching his loads. If not, there is a good chance your reloads are not sized sufficiently for this gun.

For the stovepipes, it sounds like you may need a little hotter load. If you can do so safely, add a little more powder to your next batch of reloads and see if that helps. If you were also getting the stovepipes with his loads, possible problems could be the ejector not doing its job or you may be using too strong of a recoil spring.

HTH

Bill

[Lee Bell]

Need some help from those in the know about these things............(I'm an OK shooter but a crappy gunsmith. Actually, as far as mechanical inclination goes, I'm a drooling retard.)

I'm thinking about buying an STI from a fellow, and he was gracious enough to let me take it home and try it out before deciding on it.

So I load up about 50 rounds to try out of it. Out of the 50, only about a dozen to fifteen actually functioned in the gun. Got a few stovepipes, but most were failures to feed ( feed properly that is. not nosedives, but going most of the way into the chamber and only lacking about 1/8th inch from going all the way).

The ammo he sent with the gun that he had loaded worked fine.

Here's where my question comes in (and PLEASE, don't just reply that I need to use the same load/components he does! I need input as to whether or not I may be able to get this thing to work in someway with my loads or if I should just let him keep the gun):

His loads = new Starline brass

My loads = oncefires resized by an EGW U die

The reason I need possibilities as to what may be causing this is that I'm not willing to buy new Starline brass to be able to shoot the gun. My loads sized by the EGW die do, and have, run like a scalded dog since day-1 in my Para (and I get oncefires a damn sight cheaper than new Starline).

Any ideas???.........

If I may be allowed, I'd like to piggy back off this question. I'm also having feeding problems. In my case, it's a brand new Kimber Gold Match II .40 using brand new Kimber magazines. I've fired more than 500 rounds through the gun, suggesting that it's broken in.

With Remington UMC .40 factory ammunition, I get fairly frequent failures to chamber. I planned to check all my mags to see if it's related to one or two of them, but unfortunately, managed to leave all but one of them at home. I'll try ot fix that this afternoon. The one mag I had, showed the problem often. Most often, the bullet hit the top of the chamber, not entering at all. Once, the last bullet in the mag kicked out without ever touching the chamber. I wound up with a live round sitting on the ground. Recently, I've also had unfired rounds caught in the slide, like a stovepipe, but not fired.

Has anyone else had this problem with Kimber or other .40 magazines?

Does anyone think it might be all .40 magazines and that I would be better off useing 10mm mags.

If so, do I need to load my .40 rounds longer to work reliably with the 10mm magazines?

Lee

[Merlin Orr]

Lee

Your feed lips on the mag are set to wide... Close them up to around .365 - .370 and see if that works for you... I load around 1.18 and have good luck there...

Does you EGW die "kiss" the shell plate ?

Rather...I think this is the first thing to look at for sure.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Merlin Orr

[Rather-B-Huntin]

Need some help from those in the know about these things............(I'm an OK shooter but a crappy gunsmith. Actually, as far as mechanical inclination goes, I'm a drooling retard.)

I'm thinking about buying an STI from a fellow, and he was gracious enough to let me take it home and try it out before deciding on it.

So I load up about 50 rounds to try out of it. Out of the 50, only about a dozen to fifteen actually functioned in the gun. Got a few stovepipes, but most were failures to feed ( feed properly that is. not nosedives, but going most of the way into the chamber and only lacking about 1/8th inch from going all the way).

The ammo he sent with the gun that he had loaded worked fine.

Here's where my question comes in (and PLEASE, don't just reply that I need to use the same load/components he does! I need input as to whether or not I may be able to get this thing to work in someway with my loads or if I should just let him keep the gun):

His loads = new Starline brass

My loads = oncefires resized by an EGW U die

The reason I need possibilities as to what may be causing this is that I'm not willing to buy new Starline brass to be able to shoot the gun. My loads sized by the EGW die do, and have, run like a scalded dog since day-1 in my Para (and I get oncefires a damn sight cheaper than new Starline).

Any ideas???.........

-*- Yes, the U die is touching the shellplate.

-*- And, the overall cartridge length is the same. I used one of his loaded rounds to set my seating die.

[blackdragon]

Just my 2 pennys???

New pistol= New Brass.

That is the ideal combo for mags as well!!

Thanks

Ivan

[mda]

Just because you used a loaded round to set the seating depth does not mean they are actually the same length, in my experience they have not been when I tried this method. You need to measure it with calipers. You also need to purchase and use a case gauge, or at least as someone already suggested try to drop in the chamber. If round fits the case gauge then it should fit the chamber. Custom barrels may have chambers that are smaller then the SAMMI Spec, but it is not the norm.

MDA

[HSMITH]

Any chance you used the charge for your short para loads in longer loads trying to duplicate his? That would slow the slide down a bunch and stovepipes are one of the problems low slide speed will show. Low slide speed might also keep them from fully chambering if he has a lot of extractor tension on it. Just a thought.......

[Harmon]

the owner ONLY shoots new brass? hard to believe

i thinks its a crimp problem...maybe

more details on the load please

harmon

[Mick]

My SVs all shoot factory UMC 180 .40 @ 1.135" without a problem. Chamber check your rounds to see if they are sized right. Go one lb lighter on the recoil spring so you get more bump at the back of the stroke (the rounds may get bumped up faster in the mag). Check the extractor to see if it's too tight. See if the mag catch has a really low shelf. Check the top of the feed ramp and see if there is sharp edge. Is the barrel cut for long ammo? Likely so if it's an STI...

What else can we think of????

[Joe4d]

From a moonclip using .40 shooter. there are lots of variation in rim thickness of .40. Most likely starline is pretty uniform so feeds all the time. Based on the .40 1911 I just built setting extractor tension the same way as you would a .45 ended up giving me the excact same malfunctions you are describing. Rounds would chamber about half way and occasional stovepipe of brass. After ensuring rounds chamber in removed barrel and that the rounds that did fire eject at least five to six feet to check for spring/load power. I would check extractor tension for some reason maybe due to rim variations you want it looser than "holds brass against breech"

[Rather-B-Huntin]

Need some help from those in the know about these things............(I'm an OK shooter but a crappy gunsmith. Actually, as far as mechanical inclination goes, I'm a drooling retard.)

I'm thinking about buying an STI from a fellow, and he was gracious enough to let me take it home and try it out before deciding on it.

So I load up about 50 rounds to try out of it. Out of the 50, only about a dozen to fifteen actually functioned in the gun. Got a few stovepipes, but most were failures to feed ( feed properly that is. not nosedives, but going most of the way into the chamber and only lacking about 1/8th inch from going all the way).

The ammo he sent with the gun that he had loaded worked fine.

Here's where my question comes in (and PLEASE, don't just reply that I need to use the same load/components he does! I need input as to whether or not I may be able to get this thing to work in someway with my loads or if I should just let him keep the gun):

His loads = new Starline brass

My loads = oncefires resized by an EGW U die

The reason I need possibilities as to what may be causing this is that I'm not willing to buy new Starline brass to be able to shoot the gun. My loads sized by the EGW die do, and have, run like a scalded dog since day-1 in my Para (and I get oncefires a damn sight cheaper than new Starline).

Any ideas???.........

The gun this ammo is being used in is for an Open gun. The loads the current owners uses are a 135 Rainier on 10.1 of AA 7 with new Starline brass with an OAL of 1.185.

My loads are 10.0 of HS-6, once fires sized on an EGW U die, same OAL.

[Harmon]

see if the gun will run factory ammo

Harmon

[Justsomeguy]

You did not mention if you are using Rainer's also and with the same ogive. If the bullet itself is hitting the rifling before the slide goes fully into battery then that could also be a cause. But I think the others have probably set you right when they suggested looking at either the crimp dimension or the sizing die factor. Some sizing dies, even though they are "kissing" the shell plate, have a slight chamfer at the bottom to aid in feeding into the die instead of a strict cylindrical inside shape. Those could leave the case slightly over sized at the bottom if not fired originally in the same gun or chamber. Once fired brass, especially if fired in some pistols like a Glock, will have a slight bulge at the bottom and produce this problem if not completely sized throughout their length. Not being familiar with the EGW die I cannot say if this is the problem, but I hope not.

[Rather-B-Huntin]

see if the gun will run factory ammo

Harmon

It's a comp. gun. I doubt it will.

[Lee Bell]

Lee

Your feed lips on the mag are set to wide... Close them up to around .365 - .370 and see if that works for you... I load around 1.18 and have good luck there...

Thanks Merlin. I'll check that. I kind of suspected the lips were the problem, but am new to the issues we're discussing. I've never had problems with a new gun and the mags designed for it before. It's been a bit frustrating to say the least.

Here's a bit of new information. I'm a much happier shooter today than I was yesterday.

I put the new slide stop that Kimber provided, one with an extended end for the follower to catch, into the gun and went to the range. I still got failures to feed and added unexpected lock opens. My 10mm magazines, including some I purchased from one of this forum's members, thanks, by the way, seemed to work better than the stock mags from Kimber. Some 200 rounds later, I had set every single Kimber mag aside with a problem. On my way to a USPSA match last night, I stopped by the house to pick up and reinstall the old slide stop. I was not even a little confident that the gun would run. In fact, I was so concerned that I took my .45 and ammunition for it with me, just in case.

I used only 10mm magazines and, miracle of miracles, the gun ran all night long. I had not a single jam, not a single lock open, not a single failure to lock. Everything worked smooth as silk. The first two stages were clean and about as fast as I normally am (kind of slow, but I'm new to the game). I got a single mike on the last stage. Damn. When it works, the new gun shoots as good as my Delta Elite (which I love, but hate brass cost) and better than my Colt. I'll try Merlin's suggestion. I can't tell you how nice it will be to be able to concentrate on my shooting rather than whether my gun will cycle. Heck, I can't even tell myself, but I have hope.

Merlin, when you get a chance, please provide a little information on where to measure the feed lips, front, back etc, and anything you have on how to best adjust them without screwing them up worse than they are now.

Lee