Can Someone Explain Thos Big Halo-type Sights?

[Gumby]

Can someone explain those big halo-type sights, or possibly just post a link to the sight companies?

[Gumby]

One of these. Anyone here have one?

[ihatepickles]

So, you just want to learn more about the dot sights? You can check out C-More and OKO for some more info.

Do you have any specific questions?

[Gumby]

Thanks ihatepickles. Can you tell me what the sight picture looks like with one of those, in particular, do you get a good sight picture with both eyes open?

[ihatepickles]

With the dot optics the shooter focuses on the target the whole time, you put the dot on the target and fire the shot. The sight picture is a dot floating in the middle of the round unmagnified field. Here's a sample sight picture.

Some people can keep both eyes open and shoot, some folks can't. No way to guess if you can do it. I can't keep both eyes open with iron sights or optics.

Using optics in USPSA puts you into the Open division.

[Gumby]

Yeah, I get double vision with iron sights, too.

Those sights are pretty cool in that you can focus on the target instead of the front sight.

So laser sights that put the red dot on the target rather than superimposing the red dot must be illegal in IPSC?

[ihatepickles]

I have no idea if laser pointers are legal, I've never seen one at a match though. If they are legal, they'd put you into Open class. I suspect shooting with a laser pointer would be painfully slow, if you lose the pointer downrange you have to start swinging your gun around just to find the sights. I doubt the laser would be visible past 15 yards in bright sunlight.

Having a double image of regular sights isn't really a bad thing. Lots of folks have the problem and overcome it without hurting their shooting. Either slightly squint your weak eye or put a little scotch tape on your shooting glasses to block your weak eye. I just squint my weak eye and shoot.

[open17]

I have no idea if laser pointers are legal, I've never seen one at a match though. If they are legal, they'd put you into Open class. I suspect shooting with a laser pointer would be painfully slow, if you lose the pointer downrange you have to start swinging your gun around just to find the sights. I doubt the laser would be visible past 15 yards in bright sunlight.

Lasers are legal, but you are correct--not worth a darn in the daylight. Haven't tried one of the green ones though.

I DO use an old surefire laser on one of my open guns for night matches. Kind of a hoot.

I sight it so the red dot sight and the laser are at the same point at 25 yds. Fast, accurate,

and really neat to watch if there is a bit of fog or smoke from road flares on the stage.

Bill

[Viggen]

The lazer sights are useless during the daytime for the sort of thing we do.

If it's a nightshoot and you are shooting under the lights the lazer sights are less than usless. The shooters eye tends to follow the bouncing lazer dot, and it's moving around a lot, around and it's a rolling wreck trying to shoot a match with one. It's very entertaiining to watch someone actually try to shoot a match using one of those things.

[Will Abrahams]

Gumby, just about everybody that competes in open division uses a C-more red dot sight or similar brand (like the one you have pictured). there is a thread in the "gallery" of open gun pictures, there you can see a variety of open guns with various red dot sights. they are extremely popular and after using one you will see why

here is the link

open gun pics

Edited December 25, 2006 by W.Abrahams

[open17]

The lazer sights are useless during the daytime for the sort of thing we do.

If it's a nightshoot and you are shooting under the lights the lazer sights are less than usless. The shooters eye tends to follow the bouncing lazer dot, and it's moving around a lot, around and it's a rolling wreck trying to shoot a match with one. It's very entertaiining to watch someone actually try to shoot a match using one of those things.

Try it on an Open gun. Doesn't bounce around any more than the red dot--and mine never

leaves the target. I've finished 1st overall twice, and 2nd once in 3 night matches using

the lazer/red dot combo. Yes---that's my picture next to the definition of "gamer"

[EricW]

So laser sights that put the red dot on the target rather than superimposing the red dot must be illegal in IPSC?

Not illegal. In Open, you can shoot pretty much whatever you can drag to the line. You could shoot an AR-15 pistol with 10 lasers or a Thompson Contender with irons.

The best handgunners on the planet shoot USPSA. A lot of them shoot in Open Division. The fact that you don't see a particular device being used *at all* ought to lead one to a pretty specific conclusion.

(And yes, I *have* used a laser-equipped handgun before)

Edited December 25, 2006 by EricW

[Flexmoney]

The C-more (defacto standard) is not a lazer sight. It is a red-dot sight. Think of it like the cross-hairs in a rifle scope. But, instead of cross-hairs, a red dot is projected on the lense. No light is projected down range.

Kinda like this:

[G17raider]

Here's a pic I took of my Cmore railway 6 MOA sight:

[BSeevers]

Can someone explain those big halo-type sights, or possibly just post a link to the sight companies?

They are faster and more accurate in any competition pistol shooting. The same is true for a lot of rifle and shotgun shooting too. Its allows a 2 dimensional very fast sight picture. See the last 15 USPSA Open Nationals/World Shoot/Steel Challenge or almost any match results for proof.

[Gumby]

The best handgunners on the planet shoot USPSA. A lot of them shoot in Open Division. The fact that you don't see a particular device being used *at all* ought to lead one to a pretty specific conclusion.

Well, for all I know the other possibility could have been etiquette. If competitors thought use of a laser sight was cheap, or negated the use of more refined techniques (like using the sights). I've seen that in other sports.

But that's interesting that laser sights have that many problems with use.

[ipscbob]

The best handgunners on the planet shoot USPSA. A lot of them shoot in Open Division. The fact that you don't see a particular device being used *at all* ought to lead one to a pretty specific conclusion.

Actually, I wouldn't agree with that at all. There is a huge amount of "follow the leader" in the sport these days. Most of the innovation that it is based on is gone. Just read the posts here on the subject carefully to see what I mean. We have put so many rules in place that innovation is stifled for the sake of a level playing field, whatever that means.

Well, for all I know the other possibility could have been etiquette. If competitors thought use of a laser sight was cheap, or negated the use of more refined techniques (like using the sights). I've seen that in other sports.

But that's interesting that laser sights have that many problems with use.

Try one out at a local match and find out for yourself. I haven't had one mounted on a gun for years but that doesn't mean that it will not work for you. I prefer tube scopes to the HUD type for many reasons that only became apparent to me once I stopped asking others what they suggest and tried one out. The Aimpoint CompC has so many advantages over the cmore/oko for me that I will never go back.

Edited December 27, 2006 by ipscbob

[BSeevers]

The best handgunners on the planet shoot USPSA. A lot of them shoot in Open Division. The fact that you don't see a particular device being used *at all* ought to lead one to a pretty specific conclusion.

Well, for all I know the other possibility could have been etiquette. If competitors thought use of a laser sight was cheap, or negated the use of more refined techniques (like using the sights). I've seen that in other sports.

But that's interesting that laser sights have that many problems with use.

Well it is not etiquette, for sure.

I would mount a pink oval coffee can if it made me faster. If I could shoot and beat Max M or Eric G with a laser that would have been on the gun asap.

Jojo was playing around with them a couple years ago and I think had a bright one for daylight. He never used it in a match is enough proof for me. Well truth is I already knew that it was not the way to go.

[XRe]

Think about this angle... a laser, if visible, might work reasonably well at close range. You can shoot target focus, and it won't punish improper grip/stance issues like using a C-More can (ie, no hunting for the dot). However, at longer ranges (say, beyond probably 15 yards), you run into an issue - the laser doesn't spread (well, not perceivably over those distances, anyway). Its the same small little dot at 50 yards that it was at 2 yards - and most, if not all, of us have a real hard time seeing something that small on a target at distances beyond 15 yards.

If you can/could see the laser at 50 yards, realize that all of your movements are amplified, and any inconsistency will show up in an even ruder fashion than it does with a dot - any shake, etc. While that gives you an accurate picture of gun movement, it can be very distracting and hard to follow.

Finally, you can't take advantage of the "spreading dot" to sight you gun in and have a known set of yardages within which the bullet will always impact within the dot. That means you must know your bullet drop at different ranges, and how that affects your holdover, in many more situations - with a dot scope, you just need to know where the bullet enters the bottom of the dot, and how much to hold over when you're closer to the target than that distance.

So, ignoring the fact that its tough to find a laser that you can even see in the daylight, there's a lot of disadvantages relative to a dot sight of some variety.

That said, I think putting a laser on a gun or replica and using it to practice shoot on the move, and to work on refining your platform (ie, stability!!) is an excellent idea, exactly because your movements get amplified in a much more exaggerated way, and you can more easily see them to work on refining them... Burkett has a segment on that in one of the videos (I think its covered on Volumes 1-3??)

[Derek45]

http://www.eotech-inc.com/index2.php

click on the simulator