New Md Needs Stage Opinions

[joseywales]

Opinions, suggestions, comments.

The bays at this range are 12yds wide, by 20yds deep.

Converted to .htm...unzip it and see if that works for you.

Edited December 24, 2006 by joseywales

[dfwmiket]

Look good to me ...... of course, I'm just the assistant setup guy this month.

Edited December 24, 2006 by cnemikeman

[wide45]

I don't deal with .doc files that contain graphics.

Can you post in a different format?

[dfwmiket]

Here they are in .pdf:

PDF Format of Stages

[Flexmoney]

- Pickle Barrel looks good on paper. That one will be tough to setup and avoid the shoot-thrus. (diagram needs adjusted from 130pts to 140 pts.) Looks like fun.

- Moan Back...if you want your RO to remind the shooters to be mindful of the 180, go ahead and add that into the Procedure box as a "Note:".

- Flat Nose...nothing in there to require the shooter to use the mag in the briefcase, but that should be fine...don't think you need any wording to force that on this one.

- Around the Horn...I am worried about that target behind the barrels right in front of the start position. Not sure where the shooters will engage that, but it sure looks like the rounds will travel into other props or targets. I don't see any reason to go through the door.

- Triple 6 HC...not really legal. You are specifying mandatory reloads, but it is only one string (so it's not a Standards).

- Hard Day...should be 80pts, not 90pts. (diagram)

Looks like a really good match! You guys must have lots of setup help and props ?

[dfwmiket]

Setup help last month: Josey, me, my wife. We're hoping for more help this month.

[joseywales]

Thanks for the feedback - we will make the appropriate adjustments.

...Looks like a really good match! You guys must have lots of setup help and props ?

I WISH! Usually it's about 3 of us on a Friday afternoon and we struggle a bit to get it all done before sunset these days. We could definitely use about 3 more sets of hands (post-match teardown is not a problem, as we usually have enough folks stick around after the match).

Club started up last March, and the current president has been doing triple-duty as IDPA pres/USPSA pres/MD for USPSA matches over the last 8 months. A few of us offered to step in and give him a break before he gets burned out. Hopefully more folks will see the potential for the club and step in to help. Come January match, we will become more proactive in recruiting match setup help. As always, suggestions are welcome.

[SteveZ]

Looks like a fun match. One comment....any stages that have steel plates on stands...try and do something that prevents the plate from inadvertantly falling when the stand is hit. Two methods I've seen are to place some V angle iron infront of the stand and the other is to use a hinged plate.

Any hits on the stand that cause the plate to fall are going to be a mandatory reshoot. If your shooter "remembers" that they've got a previous mike or no-shoot....all they have to do is hit the stand, causing the plate to fall....and bingo.....reshoot saving themselves from a bad run.

[wide45]

Thanks for the PDF.

3 table starts out of 7 stages.

Pickle Barrel

Flex pointed out, possible shoot thru problems. If targets are placed low, rounds can skip off the ground. Points incorrect. I'd place the barrels for the guns inside the free fire zone. Less potential for breaking 180, or foot faulting.

Moan Back

Keep the backing up short. This could be a difficult stage to RO. Where are T8 and T9? Targets and points don't add up.

Flat Nose

Where are T9 and T10? Possible shoot throo's

Around the Horn

Can't spot all the targets in the drawing. See Flex's post for other problems.

Triple Six HC

Not a legal stage. Split it into 2 strings to make it a standards.

Hard Day at the Office

16 rounds makes 80 points.

Looks like a lot of work. Mostly good stages. Most of the time, we don't see anything near as good come time to set up morning of match day.

[ima45dv8]

It would be a good idea to decide now whether the barrels will be soft cover or hard cover. If hard, the barrels will need to be inspected for hits after each shooter and taped accordingly. It also adds some potential for arguments, like whether a hit along the side was full-diameter or not, does the resulting hit on paper count or not, etc. If soft, it eliminates a lot of headaches with scoring. If you decide on soft, be sure to put it in the written stage briefing or they are hard by default.

Then, if someone wants to try to game it by shooting through the barrels, well, that plan fails more often than it works.

[joseywales]

3 table starts out of 7 stages.

May eliminate one of them - one a loaded start, the other an unloaded start.

Pickle Barrel...I'd place the barrels for the guns inside the free fire zone. Less potential for breaking 180, or foot faulting.

Good idea, thanks.

Moan Back

...Where are T8 and T9?

Flat Nose

...Where are T9 and T10?

Around the Horn

...Can't spot all the targets in the drawing.

Targets are behind walls (can't be seen in the PDF, but visible in the Word doc).

Triple Six HC

Not a legal stage. Split it into 2 strings to make it a standards.

Made it 3 strings, modeled after Max Michel's practice drill.

ima45dv8 - Good point about the barrels. Had not thought of specifying them as softcover. We've used the barrels as props/vision barriers for the last 8 months and haven't had an issue yet. Probably leave them as is (hardcover).

SteveZ - We may use poppers instead of the plates depicted in the drawing. As I recall, the only plates I've seen at our club are mounted/bolted onto steel angle iron and do not fall when hit.

[LPatterson]

People a lot more knowledgeable than me have all ready commented but until you have heard bullets flying around inside of barrels you can't appreciate how scary it sounds. Plastic barrels tend to dent/flex more than steel and can have a full bullet strike turn a barrel if they are not anchored.

Totally personal but I will never RO another stage that has barrels near targets, even if it were a nationals stage and I had to pay my way home.

[SA Friday]

Jose, really elaborate stages. They are definately high quality. You will have to really look close at the targets for shoot-throughs though. When you layer the targets in the stage, it's best to leave it empty behind the ones up range.

You are going to be hindered in adjusting your shoot-throughts because of all the rock on your berms and the severe danger of skipping a round over your rubber bullet stops. So, you can't lower targets placed immediately inside the ports on some of the stages to the ground.

Absoluetly no knock on the stages, they are great, but I have to ask. Why so elaborate? There seems to be a LOT of set-up for you plus two others. Is this a club match or some type of annual event?

If I was visiting the in-laws instead of being snowed in, I would definately be out there helping you guys.

Edited December 25, 2006 by SA Friday

[joseywales]

Thanks for the encouraging words!

You are going to be hindered in adjusting your shoot-throughts because of all the rock on your berms and the severe danger of skipping a round over your rubber bullet stops. So, you can't lower targets placed immediately inside the ports on some of the stages to the ground.

Different range (thank goodness!) for this match. The DPC range you are thinking of (where we met & shot the steel match) doesn't permit any USPSA matches. This range is 'way out' in the countyside, has dirt backstops, dirt berm walls, and dirt & grass for your feet! Most of the shoot-thrus we try to remedy with target height and/or angles.

...Why so elaborate?

I'm not thinking they are really all that elaborate (we have no movers, swingers, beartraps, etc.--- but we do need those toys!). Guess you could chalk it up to 'New MD-itis' enthusiam. I just like to shoot fun/challenging stages and think that others do too, and don't mind the effort to set it up. I also think it's important that our local shooters (a lot of them new to USPSA, and many IDPA crossovers) who haven't attended the bigger section/area matches, get a flavor of the kinds of things they might see at the bigger matches. Hopefully it'll incent them to give a $125/overnight/200 miles away match a try. Certainly a big part of it is to help our new club grow its membership base by making the stages fun & challenging enough to keep them coming back, telling others, and bringing their friends.

If I was visiting the in-laws instead of being snowed in, I would definately be out there helping you guys.

Dude! We'll do this in January...it'll be warmer here in Texas than Colorado. Maybe you can convince your bride that she needs to come see momma! Anytime you are in the DFW area, absolutely give me a call!

LPatterson - Thanks for the barrel tips. We are 'Wall-Challenged' right now, hopefully we'll have enough by mid-January to eliminate a lot of the barrel-substituting-for-walls use...especially those that are close to targets.

BTW-The last couple of matches at our club I've had a hand in setting up, and we count on a few of our local GM/M/A shooters with years of MD/big match experience giving the stages a thorough QA. For the most part, we've been able to find most of the 'gotchas' before they arrive at 8AM on Saturday. However, they usually do point out something that invariably improves and/or saves a stage! Posting here has helped educate me on some of the things I'm sure they would find on match day. Grateful for all the help! Keep it coming.

[SA Friday]

I will definately call you the next time I'm back down there. Kinda hoping to get to the Double Tap match, but it might not be in the cards. I will shoot you a PM if it is.

Attached is one of the better stages I made for our club. Use it some time. I don't think I put all the legal "per 8.1.1 and 8.1.2" stuff on it, but it was quite a fun stage to figure out for everyone, lots of options. Roger Sherman or Ara won it for production, I can't remember which. If I remember correctly, Sherman shot in the 17's.

Sean

Gettin_the_Box.DOC