sfinney Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I understand from various people and the latest "Front Sight" that 9mm Open Major may become officially legal soon.... I don't have anything specifically against it (in fact it will probably convert over some Production shooters who want to scope their Glocks, etc). But why is everyone so worked up about it (besides Glock shooters)? Sure, the brass is cheaper, but as far as performance, aren't you just going to end up loading to @1.250, driving a 124 gr bullet to 165 PF +? I'm not a rocket scientist, but it seems like the load would feel about the same as current .38 loads? I here of guys building up new 9mm guns on STI/SV frames, or changing barrels - are you really gaining that much, or is it that its just "new"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I believe the excitement is due to the much cheaper brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 I'm going to keep shooting .38 Super. Once I wear it out I'll consider rebarrelling in 9x19 for cheaper brass. I see it mainly benefitting small-frame/small-magazine guns like most of the 9mm and .40s out there that can't run much beyond 1.13" OAL. Glocks, Tanfoglios, etc. Maybe our European and other members can tell us what guns people are shooting 9x19 Major through. Are people with STI, SV, SPS, and Bul M5 guns shooting Super-sized cartridges regardless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Here in Norway everyone with a frame large enough for a Super, uses that. Not many shooting 9x19 Major that I know of. Same thing in Sweden, but it might be different further down in Europe. Even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 As far as PF goes, for an "open" class, why even have it. We all know with the comps on the open guns PF is sort of useless. A 165PF loads shoots just as flat as 130. Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Quote: from warpspeed on 10:52 pm on Feb. 28, 2002 A 165PF loads shoots just as flat as 130. Doesn't it? No. The guns are set up for a certain pressure in the comp. Dropping PF means changing your load if you want your gun to work to its maximum capabilityies. Also, to some extent, flattness and recoil are a trade-off. In my gun the loads that are the softest shooting are not the flattest. To get the gun shooting really flat, it still hits back fairly hard. Now I don't notice when I'm shooting, but most people who have never shot an open gun expect the recoil to be less than it is. To some extent, it's a reflection of the impulse; the light bullets impart a much quicker and sharper hit than the heavier, slower bullets in my limited gun. When I shoot limited which isn't often, I'm always initially surpised at how soft the gun feels. A properly setup steel gun and an IPSC open gun are two very different machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Loh Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 I for one totally support the idea of making 9X19 a legal major cal in IPSC. Again due to very strict gun law in Malaysia and I can't remember how many times I have said this in this forum. It helps us who own one gun and be able to shoot minor & major load. Also it is easier to build a single caliber gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Well, looks like we'll have to wait a bit longer for 9mm major. Here is a copy from the board minutes, which are released for the public per Area 1's motion, so this shouldn't be considered confidential (in other words, don't get mad at me for posting this). 9mm Major for Open Division Area-1 moved that the Board go into Executive Session at 15:10 pm Area-4 seconded. Motion carried. Area-1 moved that the Board exit Executive Session at 16:10 pm Area-3 seconded. Motion carried. Area-2 moved that, since the reduction in Power Factor from 175 has changed the circumstances that resulted in the 1990 resolution against 9x19 Major, the resolution is hereby voided Area-4 seconded. Area-2 called for a roll-call vote. Area-1 No Area-2 Yes Area-3 Yes Area-4 Yes Area-5 No Area-6 No Area-7 Yes Area-8 No 4 in favor, 4 opposed. President No [tie-breaker] Motion fails. Area-1 moves to waive confidentiality on this issue to allow immediate disclosure of the outcome of this vote Area-3 seconded. Motion carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 My .02 for what its worth, You'll have a hard time loading 9x19 out to 1.250. I have accidently loaded 9x19 cases while loading Super and at that length not enough bullet is in the case to stay tight. You can just pull the bullet out becuase less that .10 is in the case. Also, most folks are loading 40 long for better feeding in 1911 patten guns and 9x19 may case the same feeding problems. I know in my 9mm single stack that super mags are not reliable at all because the round is so far back in the mag. Shorter 9mm mags work better because the round starts closer to the ramp. This would mean adding a spacer to your 1911 hi-cap mags for reliability of feeding but then you have one more part floating around in the mag to cause problems. Cheaper brass is not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 What TMC is talking about is last year's rulebook which allowed 9x19 MAJOR if it was loaded out to at least 1.250" OAL. What the hoopla is about, and what we are talking about, is the 9x19mm case loaded to ANY OAL under 1.250" and meeting the new lower 165 major PF - a round which has been banned by the 1990 BOD Resolution (the full text of which has never appeared in any of the rulebooks). As it is, there are commercial rounds loaded to 165 PF and factory guns sold which will handle 165PF 9x19mm ammo. There is also safe, published reloading data meeting the 165 PF. Still, the BOD has spoken for this year (and the majority made a mistake in my opinion). Looking forward to the next BOD vote. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 6, 2002 Author Share Posted March 6, 2002 I think that the only argument that makes sense for changing the rules for 9mm Open Major (besides cheaper brass) is that it would attract guys shooting guns such as open Glocks or similar type guns, they will be more likely to jump to Open class, strengthening our USPSA membership..... (but I've heard of guys shooting 9X21 out of Glocks as well, so.....) it would be the natural progression of Production shooters, looking for something new as they advance.... they'd already own a gun they could scope and comp, low cost entry..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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