Transitioning from Limited to Open...

[Ron Ankeny]

Well, I shot my open blaster in a club match today and I sucked. Two of the four stages had tight shots, hard cover, and were at 12-20 yards, ideally suited to open pistols.

I have shot perhaps 1500 rounds through my open gun (first one) in 2 matches and about a dozen practice sessions. Still, as a general rule I do better with my Limited pistol. I know it takes time to get accustomed to a new platform and I figure I will be rocking with the open gun in a year.

I hate to sound too ignorant, but here goes. How much time, effort, practice, etc., would you expect it to take for a Limited Master to switch to Open and be able to shoot A class scores? Also, for those of you who switched from Limited to Open which areas seemed to be the most difficult? For instance, I think I am over aiming and I really struggle on close targets. Your thoughts???

[Chriss Grube]

The close targets are basically point and shoot. If you try to use the dot it just slows you down. The switch requires that you relearn what you need to see to make the shot. Out to 7-10 yards the dot isn't much of an advantage. The biggest problem I had was shooting the match through the scope. I followed that stupid dot everywhere. Use your eyes and let the dot catch up. What type of dot, C-more, tube or optima type? The comp also changes the recoil track so you have to learn that new timing. Lots of dryfiring to learn the dot position.

[kbear38S]

Chriss, I'll even go one futher. I think out to about 7 yds and maybe as far as 10, iron sights are faster. Because of the height of the dot above the slide (excepting Optima types), I think it's slower to aquire than iron sights where you only really have to look down the top of the slide.

Your absolutely right about letting the dot catch up to your eyes. Focus on your target and move the dot to your intended point of aim. The neat thing about the dot is that is soon as it's there, you can break the shot.

C-Mores are probably the hardest dot to shoot well because there's less visual reference to guide you to the dot. It's kind of high and there's no tube to look down. That said, once you're used to it it's very fast and affords a great field of view because there's nothing obstructing your vision.

[Ron Ankeny]

When I first started shooting IPSC I was slow and deliberate. Three years and thousands of rounds later I have managed to develop a softer sight focus, a good index, and substantial speed at close yardages. However, as my eyes get older a dot really helps at long yardages.

It seems like 90 percent of targets that I see in local matches are under ten yards and clustered close together. I am beginning to wonder if buying an open gun is kind of like hitching a cart to a dinosaur. Do open guns even have a place in IPSC any more?

[ong45]

When i started shooting open the thing that bugged me the most was the dot being very jumpy , it seemed that i was waiting too long for the dot to stabilize before i would accept the sight picture. I finally decided to break the shot as soon as possible and not to wait for the dot to totally stop moving.

Dry fire will help you pick up those targets faster and i do not belive that on closer targets a dot is a liability, you gotta have a good sight picture no matter how close the target is and any way you cut it, the dot is easier to see and to index off of. Point shooting on close targets ? naaah ,don't do it and don't become a double tapper.

You have to be very relaxed ,you will go faster if you stick with it ,1500 rounds is not a lot.

James Ong

[Chriss Grube]

Ron,

Yes they have a place! They are still the best tool for the job, Shooting fast and accurately! Limited is fun to shoot on occasion. The other divisions are excuses to buy more guns and play when they have a factory gun match. Let's face it L-10 is a PC division in some areas and a joke in most others. It is a limited gun with only 10 rds loaded. If it wasn't for a stupid law it wouldn't exist. Production is generally a division to attract new shooters. This is good for all of us. Most of the ones that get hooked move to Limited or Open. Revolver has about the same numbers at a big match as the number of people who DQ!

The c-more is definetly a longer learning curve. It takes about a year to really get used to the sight / bore offset. I used to make small ports much bigger for the next guy! I'm switching to the Docter set on the slide for the new blaster. I don't think it will be near as tough a transition. As long as it is 100% reliable I'll be happy.

[Flexmoney]

Hi Ron.

I want to let you know...I am coming at this from as "rookie" Open shooter.  I have shot Open for fun a few times, but not under the pressure of match score.  That may well provide me with a perspective to help you out here.

Oh hell...since I think of you as a pretty good online buddy...I'll be blunt.

Two things stand out.

1.  Trying

2.  Expecting (...ideally suited to open pistols. )

I'm pretty sure you have a lot of both going on.  I also know that you are a great shooter with the iron sights, and that you had to bust your butt to get to Limited Master as quick as you did.  You probably will have to work just as hard to switch to Open as you did to switch to speed shooting from your long-range accuracy base in Limited.

Then there is the journey you've had to get the gun running, and the fact that your local buddies are all pretty much Limited shooters (I know they gotta be jabbing at ya at least a little).  All that adds up to a lot of pressure (it would for me).

Now..back to me...

I have shot my Open gun in two matches.  One was a re-shoot in a USPSA match, the other was a Steel Challenge match.  I didn't have any performance pressure on me for either match.

In the USPSA match...I nearly won that match shooting Limited.  I lost by about 3 match points to a pretty good local Open shooter.  I actually won two of the four stages and finished over 99% on a third.  On the fourth stage I blew it by (you guess it) trying too hard.  

Anyway, the point being...I shot a pretty good Limited match.  I later re-shot with the Open gun.  Without any pressure...I just let the gun do the work...my Limited hit factors were about 85-87% of my Open gun scores.

I had the same experience in the Steel Challenge match.  I had no pressure.  I just wanted to see if the gun was going to run.  It was pretty amazing.  Again, I let the gun take care of the shooting.  I just kinda stood behind it.

I know that I will have my hands full when I shoot the Open gun under match pressure.  Until then, I think I will keep the range time to a minimum.  I'll verify my sights, then maybe stick to mostly dry-firing.  I'm gonna break out the Burner tapes and go over the sections about presenting the gun (to see the dot).  I'll do some draw practice and reload practice (I like to race against the Burner).  I'll work on getting into and out of shooting positions.  And, I'll do some dryfire target transitions...focusing on getting my eyes ahead of the gun (I have a problem with wanting to follow the front sight/dot).  When it comes time to shoot...I hope I can relax enough to let the gun take care of that part of the game for me.  I'll just try to keep it feed, get it presented, and be in the right position.

(Thanks Ron...this kinda turned into a post to myself.  I hope some of it can apply to your shooting.)

[Steve Anderson]

That's good stuff...

[38supPat]

Ok a few things.

Part of learning optics is the wobble. Iron sights are not nearly so obvious in the amount of movement while aiming. But a dot seems to vibrate all over the place. You must see past this, the gun is not moving nearly as much as it seems, just pay attention to its relationship to the target. at a 50 yd target it may seem to be bouncing all over the place, but if you look you will see that it doesn't actually leave the A zone.

Finding the dot is all about index and natural alignment. Do some of the exercises listed elsewhere that deal with presenting the gun with the eyes closed, this is even more critical with a dot.

Too much information, I have seen even experienced Open shooters have trouble for there first few matches when transitioning from a tube scope to a C-More type optic. At first your eyes will realize that they can see a much bigger field of view when using a heads-up display type of sight. So they try to process all of it, drawing your focus away from the dot and target. After a bit of time you will get used to it and they will go back to seeing what is important.

The more I shoot my open guns the more I pay attension to the dot, even on extreme close shots...5m and under. I find this slows me down enough to get my hits. With the open guns it is easy to overshoot your vision, causing pulled c's and d's and misses, you are looking beyond what the gun is doing right now. On one stage I shot in a match, three targets at 4 yds, from surrender, I ran a 1.51 second run all A's and distinctly saw the dot for every shot, including .13 splits target to target. So there is no way it slows you down to see the dot. You do not have to precisely place the dot for each shot, but you had better see it.

Remember you  must see something, I have shot and won matches and stages with no sights whatsoever, but I did see what I needed to to get the gun aligned on target while the shot was fired.

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks to all of you, this forum is a fountain of information, and reassuring as well.

Flexmoney:

When I did the math last month I was sure that I would make Limited Master with room to spare this month. Well I didn't make it. My percentage is 84.844 and that makes me the third highest A shooter in the country. I would rather me the lowest Master, lol. Darn, I have been shooting my open gun for two weeks, now I need to go back to the Limited pistol for a couple of more classifiers. Bummer...

[Flexmoney]

Ron,

Ugh.  That will kinda bite to have to go back after you are all geared up for Open now...but, another one like your last two and you are home free.

[j1b]

Ron

Its obvious you know how to shoot. And well.

The one thing I used to see when people jumped from limited to open was high expectations.

The only thing I would say is that the guns may be different but the shooting is the same. Keep what you know - see what you need to - and you will excel.

It won't take a year - it'll take maybe a couple of more practice sessions to learn what the open gun does. I think transitioning back to limited may be good right now. It'll swing your confidence back to the fact that you do know what you are doing. When you pick up your open gun don't forget that.

JB

[ErikW]

Be sure to keep your grip relaxed, maybe more so than with a stock gun. Any time the dot doesn't track straight, relax or otherwise fix your grip.

Let the gun do the work.