Too Many B.S. Rules

[Jim Norman]

We invented Production to give the Glock/Sig/Beretta's a place to play to compete since they didn't with 1911's

Hiding under a rock lately? 2005 Limited 10 Champion-Glock, 2006 Limited Champion-Glock.

DA's can compete with SA's, it's the shooter..................

Here is an interesting thought and in truth, I don't support it, but I thought of it so I think it should get airtime.

L-10 Minor PF only, Mods OK, or not as you like, Now, other than the DA first shot, what is the difference between L10 and Production?

Like I said, I do not support this, but it could be interesting. An XD, Berretta, Glock can be completely competitive in Limited-10 and for that matter in Limited to the extent that there are full capacity mags available. And all of the above can make Major in their 40 cal models. Do we really need Production??

OK, OK, Flame suit is on, remember I said this is not an idea I support, but in light of all of the other threads that are looking to do away with L-10 or SS or roll thim into other divisions as catagories, I thought that this was ripe to be added to the mix.

It IS the Shooter, not the gun. Given an equal level of skill a better shooter will likely win with better equipment, but given equal equipment, the better shooter will win.

Jim

[Darrell]

After being away from IPSC/USPSA for 10 years and just getting back into shooting, I'm starting to favor IDPA more and more. Yes I own a custom built .40, but I like shooting my M&P and XD's too. For years I couldn't afford to shoot open and had to make do with what I had (Randall .45). It propelled me to A class quick, and I never place lower than 4th at any match. Now everyone has gotten better, I've gotten older, but I still manage several 1st, and 2nds on the local level. I don't like all the rules since coming back to IPSC. But its all trigger time for me and I just want to shoot.

P.S. My favorite gun? Whatever is in my hand.

[sslav]

Here is an interesting thought and in truth, I don't support it, but I thought of it so I think it should get airtime.

L-10 Minor PF only, Mods OK, or not as you like, Now, other than the DA first shot, what is the difference between L10 and Production?

If you are going to score L10 minor then why not score SS minor and combine that with Production instead?

[38superman]

"L-10 Minor PF only, Mods OK, or not as you like, Now, other than the DA first shot, what is the difference between L10 and Production?"

There are still meaningful differences, such as speed holster vs. duty/carry holster.

Holster and magazine placement.

Tls

[lynn jones]

yeah, too many rules.."engage target as they become visible"

[Paul B]

Hiding under a rock lately? 2005 Limited 10 Champion-Glock, 2006 Limited Champion-Glock.

DA's can compete with SA's, it's the shooter..................

Alright I'll say it Glocks and their variants have never been true double actions and the only reason they are called that is because they wanted them to fit production.

I don't have a problem with it but lets call it what it is instead of some argument that the action does only part of the cocking and the trigger the rest. The same argument could be made for the 1911 with enough engineering diagrams.

I'm not shocked that a pistol with good sights and a circa 2 lb "double action" trigger could win both limited and production.

[Flexmoney]

Paul,

I'm pretty sure Dave's trigger is stock. So is mine (currently), fwiw.

Figure them at 4lbs. with that 2-stage glock feel.

(Sure, I can get them down to 2lbs.)

[Paul B]

Paul,

I'm pretty sure Dave's trigger is stock. So is mine (currently), fwiw.

Figure them at 4lbs. with that 2-stage glock feel.

(Sure, I can get them down to 2lbs.)

Flex, my 22 came from the factory with the "5lb" trigger which actually came closer to 7 when I measured it. It was not easy to measure with the trigger safety. I put in a "3.5lb" conversion and then it went to 5+lbs. I'd take your 4. I have sure handled some other glocks though down as low as 1.5lb totally repeatable and safe. The trigger on a glock is not what would keep it out of limited. As near as I can tell it would be more mindset that S_I is the only thing that could win.

[JDBraddy]

yeah, too many rules.."engage target as they become visible"

I found this thread interesting as a new shooter, who's not yet fully familiar with all the "Rules". It seems to me like the important thing is to attract more people to the sport, and then keep them comming out to shoot regularly. Most will find a nitch somewhere, equipment rules are fine, as long as they don't render anyone unable to participate. We had a kid show up at a match with a Kel-Tech P-11, he still got to shoot! I'm over 40 and soft around the middle, I don't show up to a match expecting to win anything, except for maybe a new shooting buddy. Maybe I'll surprise myself someday!

[Flexmoney]

I don't show up to a match expecting to win anything, except for maybe a new shooting buddy. Maybe I'll surprise myself someday!

You probably will. I stated out just wanting to get trigger time and figure out what works...along with shooting with a few buddies.

Now, thanks to the competition, the shooters, and this forum in particular, I can make just about any shot that can be taken with a handgun and I've learned how to get on to the next shot without much delay. Pretty cool.

[38superman]

I don't want to drift too far but the last two posts raise an interesting question.

We have always placed an emphasis on bringing new shooters into the fold.

I would be curious to know exactly what expectations people had when they started this.

It might yield some interesting insight.

A few years back my recreation revolved around my Harley.

Financial issues forced me to give up the bike and I was looking for a new hobby.

There was a local IPSC club available and I decided that competition shooting might be a good way to replace the time I used to spend riding motorcycles.

I joined IPSC as a casual shooter just looking for some R&R.

Now I am hooked.

My only expectation is to keep working to improve.

Focus on that and the rest will take care of itself.

Tls

Edited December 27, 2006 by tlshores

[JDBraddy]

I don't want do drift too far but the last two posts raise an interesting question.

We have always placed an emphasis on bringing new shooters into the fold.

I would be curious to know exactly what expectations people had when they started this.

It might yield some interesting insight.

After I got out of the Army in 1991, I wanted to keep shooting, so I joined the local USPSA club. I got married, and my wife was shooting with me then. She even bought me my Dillon as a birthday present just before we where married. I shot in a half dozen or so matches, and club membership renewals came due. A local gunsmith and shop owner named [Mr. X] was president of the club back then, and my new wife and I went into his shop to renew our memberships. We where told that I would be allowed to renew, but my wife could not, because she hadn't worked enough matches, and they wanted to "trim the fat" and streamline the membership to include only "Serious Shooters" who where willing to actively participate. I wasn't happy about this, and said so, [Mr. X] became beligerant, insulting, and began name calling. Needless to say, my wife and I left. I was angry, but he was president of the club, and I was just a new shooter, so I just decided to let it go and never went back. I even started going to another range. A few years later, I had heard that the club had split and the two groups had gone their seperate ways, and one of the groups had started using the range I was now a member at, but I never knew the details, and never inquired further. Years rolled by, till one sunday this past September, I had taken my two nephews to the range and we stumbled upon a match. They where curious and wanted to watch, so we did. I could tell the club had grown and changed quite a bit over the years. I asked around and was told [Mr. X] was no longer with the club, and was invited to come out an shoot again. I accepted the invitation, and enjoyed myself. I joined again and have really had a much better experience this time around, however my wife still wants nothing to do with them. I don't blame her, She hasn't gone shooting with me for a couple years now anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say by sharing this story is, some of us do this for fun, and it only takes one person being an A-hole to spoil the fun!

[edited to remove the real names]

Edited December 27, 2006 by Flexmoney

[ysued]

+1 there!!

I'm glad that you came back to the Shooting Sports!!

Way back before I started shooting USPSA/IPSC I had a somewhat similar situation, I just left the range and went to another range, I can't stand A-Holes!! Same thing happened to the gun store I used to go to, I was driving over 60 Extra Miles Round trip not to deal with those A-Holes at the Gun Store.

Y

[richardschennberg]

It seems that clubs have varying attitudes towards women. Mr. X may have had a bad attitude that made the policy change worse. Different clubs have rules regarding range work, family memberships, and renewals. Most clubs in and near Kentucky have family memberships at no extra charge for spouse and minor children; the only one that charges extra for a spouse has a reduced rate for the second adult.

One club requires range work to be a voting member but not for paying dues and qualifying for a lower entry fee; another two require range work the first year you join but do not have a set minimum # of hours for renewals.

It sounds like Mr. X gave you the worst of all worlds: no family membership, minimum RO hours every year (no guaranteed renewal), and a bad attitude. At the very least he could have been polite and reminded you that USPSA matches are open to everyone (you don't have to be a club member).

Americans do not have a uniform attitude towards women and manual labor. We have usually had good luck with women who did not want (or who were physically unable) to do heavy lifting volunteering to help with signups or scoring. Most nearby clubs have never demanded that women help run the match, especially setup and tear-down.