Fighting the dot...

[Ron Ankeny]

First off, thanks for all of the advice on transitioning to open. I have about 4,000 rounds through the beast and I shot it in another club match today. I still suck canal water.

Here's the deal. For the last couple of years my recoil control hasn't been the best. Recently I have gone to a little more agressive grip and stance. My new stance, grip, and timing have made a world of difference in my Limited gun shooting but it isn't working with the open gun.

When I practice with my open pistol I seem to do pretty well, but when I get in a match I end up fighting the dot. The gun goes off, the dot lifts, then dips well below the point of aim, then I fight the darn dot all over the target face getting it back to the point of aim for the second shot. This builds tension and anxiety and things get ugly. Today, I shot a 5.85 HF on a classifier going open. I went to my truck and got my Limited gun (which I haven't been shooting much) and shot the classifier for L10 with a HF of  6.6589. I am torn between setting the limited gun aside for a few months and concentrating on open, or doing as Jack suggested and set the open gun aside and shoot limited for a while.

Still, sooner or later I need to deal with the timing issues, mental frustrations, and so on. I am looking for suggestions on how to make the gun work for me instead of me working against the gun. Do those of you who have both limited and open guns change your grip pressure and timing every time you go from one to the other (of course you do). How do you do it???

[Nik Habicht]

Ron,

I'm not an open shooter by any stretch of the imagination or even anywhere close to your class in Limited.  I'm going to throw my two cents in anyway.  I sense a lot of frustration reading your post.  Why not try something a little different.  Shoot the limited gun in matches on the clock.  Shoot the open gun during the week FOR FUN.  I emphasized those last two words because I get the sense that this (shooting open) isn't fun for you.  I don't know what kind of time or quantity of bullets it's going to take to make you comfortable with the open blaster.  But, if you can make shooting it fun, then maybe the tension will go away and you'll have an easier time with the dot.  You didn't get to be on the verge of master in Limited overnight, so the transition here will likely take some time and effort, though perhaps not as much as if you were just entering the sport in open class.  Final thought ---- if you have the chance to run one or more stages of a match you've shot in Limited again with an open gun, take that chance.  Maybe the lack of pressure (without the score counting) will get you on the track.  If you've already considered this, or if this approach won't work for your temperament, feel free to ignore any and all suggestions.

[Ron Ankeny]

Nik:

I think you are on to something here. I shoot quite a bit (school teachers get bored in the summer) and I like shooting the open gun in practice. What I dislike is the results I get when I shoot it in a match.

BTW, you are always welcome to throw in your two cents worth. I have been in the education business for a long time and experience has taught me that I can learn something from everyone.

[Nik Habicht]

Ron,

Maybe you can wrap your brain around the fact that what you can do with a limited gun means nothing when you're shooting open.  If you shoot lower hit factors with the open gun, that's neither good nor bad.  It's simply what you are capable of today.  Next month or next year may be a totally different story.

I'm going to interject a quote from our host: Trust meaning belief in that what you have trained to do is all you can do, with any sort of repeatability. And that that will be good enough.

You've obviously improved a great deal since you came into this sport.  Trust that you'll improve with the open gun.  It may be faster or slower than your improvement with the Limited Gun and it may take months before you see significant changes.  Trust that it will happen.  Trying to make the experience FUN and trying to eliminate or reduce some of the stress and pressure you're putting on yourself can only help.

When I started shooting IPSC just over a year ago, I couldn't reliably hit targets on the move or make hard shots at 20-25 yards.  This summer I've noticed that I can.  I don't completely trust it yet, but I'm working on it.  Trusting seems to be easier when I'm having fun and relaxed.  

I figured you'd be open to my two cents ---- but I read your rant in the hate section and didn't want to fuel the fires if you were still raging.

[EricW]

Hey Ron,

I don't know squat about Open blasters, but have you considered that maybe it's not you.  Maybe it's the gun.  You might just have a basic spring/comp/gas port balancing issue.

My 2 pesos,

E

[Chriss Grube]

Ron,

Try Matt's timing drill with the different grip pressures. Don't fight the gun. The biggest misconception is that the dot doesn't move. Treat the dot just like your FS. Let it raise and settle back to the same point. Eric might be correct in the load, spring type stuff. Try the grip drill and if that doesn't correct itwe can go from there. Remember to relax. The open gun is a totally different animal. The you might be slowing way down trying to make every shot perfect. It is a whole different type of sight focus than the limited. learn what you need to see to get your hits.

[ErikW]

Grip, grip, grip, and grip! Relax it for the foo-foo gun. Let the gun do the work.

Search the archives for my year-old question about Open vs. Limited and the good replies from benos and others.

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks guys. I went to the range last night and I confirmed what I already knew. I can make the open gun work fine in practice when I use the correct grip, balance, and stance. The problem arises when I get in a match. During the match I go on autopilot and revert to what I know and do best, an agressive grip and stance...

[Flexmoney]

Ron,

Sounds like me...shooting out of habit, not awareness.  Maybe we are drinking the same water.

[benos]

Ron,

Your problem mirrors the lesson I learned many years ago at the Bianchi Cup (described somewhere... ) - The grip you "use" in the match may not be (OK, it probably isn't) the same grip you use in practice. Therefore it's essential to dedicate some matches to simply becoming aware of your grip pressure IN THE MATCH.

First, in dry and live fire practice, pay attention to your grip so you can simulate it on demand every time you extend the pistol to your shooting platform. You’re establishing a baseline. Remember this feeling, and give a value of 100%. (You don't want to grip harder than that, right? You already know where the problem is.

Then, once you've examined and programmed a stage, as you prepare to shoot (and especially during the countdown), direct 90% of your attention to the feeling that both hands, feeling them as "one unit," apply to the gun. (Leaving the other 10% of your attention to observe the dot tracking.)

In a match, so as to not lose awareness of your grip/hands during the draw, or when moving into position - during the countdown or when entering a position, consciously tell yourself to feel, or be aware of your grip strength, percentage wise, relates to your practice grip.

Now, begin to experiment. When you shoot a stage in a match, consciously direct your attention to using 90% of your practice grip pressure, instead of just cranking down on the gun in some arbitrary, random manner. Shoot some stages with 90% pressure and compare how the dot tracks to how it tracks in practice. Then try some stages at 80% grip pressure, and so on until you feel you’ve found, for you, how your grip in the match should feel to reproduce the sight tracking you enjoy in practice. Once you’ve learned this feeling, your body can recall it much more easily than if you try to, in some way, think about what you are doing.

Some folks are more sensitive to learning in this way than others. (Meaning for some it’s essential, for others it may not be.)

Try it though, and see if it works for you.

For myself, I pretty much always pat attention to how I’m going to "set" my grip before I shoot. I don’t shoot until I’ve "set my grip." The I forget about it and just watch the gun track. Meaning, at the moment my gun hits full extension, I shift my attention from 90% on the setting the grip to 90% on watching the sights, (leaving the other 10% for being aware of anything of importance). (So this "set" happens during the draw stroke.) I’ve found this technique to be extremely beneficial over the years.

Stick with it – this problem is always due to unaware excess tension.

be

[Ron Ankeny]

Brian:

This forum is priceless. Thank you once again.

I went to the range at 7:00 this morning with a different strategy. I decided to go to the range to do my dry fire practice instead of doing it at home. I figured I would introduce live fire intermittently with dry fire. I have never tried this before, except during a shooting school.

I put a target at ten yards and did 10 dry fire draws with a par time set to 1.4 seconds. Then I went to 1.2 seconds then 1 second flat. I then did 10 more "cool down" dry fire draws with a par time of 1.4 seconds.

I then loaded the pistol with the par time remaining at 1.4. Buzz, draw, bang, in 1.38 seconds. A good solid draw at my leisure. I immediately focused all of my attention to sensing body tension. I continued to shoot, observe, and be aware.

What a revelation. When I go live fire I have more tension everywhere. More in my hands and more in my shoulders. I think I have even more tension in my hands and grip during a match. No wonder I fought trigger freeze for six months.

I am convinced that my tension level goes like so. Almost no tension during dry fire because that's what I focus on. More tension during live fire because I focus on hits and transitions. Even more tension in a match because I try to win.

Now I know exactly what the problem is, and you have given me a prescription. For the first time in weeks, I feel really good about my shooting because I am...you guessed it...becoming aware of what has been right in front of me all along. I just wouldn't let myself see it.

[Flexmoney]

be said:

Stick with it – this problem is always due to unaware excess tension.

Wow, that is sooo much what I need to focus on.

[benos]

It's weird, but some Types must pay way more attention to this than others. I constantly have to monitor it; some seldom do. (The Great One, for example.) The only time I've observed it would be beneficial for Robbie to pay attention to body tension is when he's been pushed out of his comfort zone, whether in a match, shootoff, or in practice. If he's confident that what "he does naturally is fast enough to win," he doesn't have to worry about it. I think, therein lies the key for all of us - are we confident that what we will do without pushing is fast enough? For me, I always have to fight my natural tendency to push, or shoot the ultimate run - every time I step up to the line.

I'm not a naturally confident person - I'm a doubter. (That can be a strength at times and a weakness at others.) The Great One is big-time naturally confident. My confidence comes from consciously  TRUSTING in the skills I have developed. The problem then, for the doubter, is that he must devote time and energy to develop and "acquire" confidence, which must be rooted in complete knowledge of his skills to this point in his training. So the doubter must work endlessly to remove doubt from all aspects of his shooting, mental and physical.

be

[Ron Ankeny]

Brian:

Thanks for the follow-up. I was wondering if the big dogs even think about some of these issues. I too am a doubter, and a concrete, sequential, it's gotta be just right type of mentality. That can be good, or it can be hindrance.

The best stages that I have ever shot were when I walked up to the box knowing (not wondering or questioning) that the particular array was playing right into my strengths. I smoked them.