Sideways Crushed Primers Xl650 .45acp

[boo radley]

I'm finding it extremely frustrating loading .45acp on my Dillon XL650. The primer is getting crushed sideways or inserted upside-down in 1 out of 5 rounds.

This is NOT a problem when I convert to .40S&W. There I can load flawlessly, so something has to be changing when I switch calibers. I am using Lee dies, including the FCD, and the operation is very jerky, I will admit. However, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between rough operation of the handle (because of the FCD or sizing) and a sideways primer....As far as I can tell, the primers are not upside-down at station 2.

I've done a search, but welcome any suggestions. Almost ready to dedicate the 650 exclusively to .40 and just buy an SDB for .45acp.

[shred]

Here's a couple threads. Whenever that happened to me, it was because the primer punch wasn't screwed in all the way, but 1 out of 5 is a lot-- enough to think something isn't right in the priming system-- how do you changeover-- whole new priming system or move parts around?

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...crushed+primers

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...crushed+primers

[mobocracy]

I'm finding it extremely frustrating loading .45acp on my Dillon XL650. The primer is getting crushed sideways or inserted upside-down in 1 out of 5 rounds.

This is NOT a problem when I convert to .40S&W. There I can load flawlessly, so something has to be changing when I switch calibers. I am using Lee dies, including the FCD, and the operation is very jerky, I will admit. However, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between rough operation of the handle (because of the FCD or sizing) and a sideways primer....As far as I can tell, the primers are not upside-down at station 2.

I've done a search, but welcome any suggestions. Almost ready to dedicate the 650 exclusively to .40 and just buy an SDB for .45acp.

Station 2 doesn't have a locator button, it uses the small shiny spring-loaded arm on top of the primer disc to locate the cases at this station. My 650, bought new last spring, came with a sticker on the primer magazine and a warning in the documentation that this needs to be adjusted properly so that the cases are located at station 2 when changing calibers.

It sounds like it hasn't been adjusted when you changed primers, resulting in the case being out of center (too far into the shellholder would be my guess, since .40 cases are smaller), causing the primers to turn sideways when being seated.

[boo radley]

Thx Shred and Mob...Primer punch is screwed in tight. I'm tending to agree with Mob and the threads linked, that the problem resides somehow with how I have the locator arm adjusted in station 2, though it seems there's a slight gap between the arm and shell....

[dillon]

The gap between this arm and the shell should only be .002"-.003". A piece of printer paper makes a good gapping tool.Be sure you also have the correct locator pins installed, should be marked with a 1 on them. Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy, then tighten the shellplate bolt a bit more. Be sure the ejector wire is not trapped under the head of the shellplate bolt, but is around the head of the bolt.

What is the headstamp on the 45 ACP cases with crushed primers? If marked with a manufacturer code and a date, but not the caliber, then it could be military brass, with crimped primer pockets. These require the crimp be removed before a primer can be seated.

Mark the location in the shellplate where it fails to properly prime. If failure to prime consistantly occurs in the same location, then the shellplate could have been machined incorrectly.

[glooooock]

Since all 100+ primers went off at once in the tube and disc , I am gun shy.

I still have my 650XL down , till I get the nerve to fix it . It also was pushing in primers at an angle . I could get a 200 rd run and it would go bad.

[boo radley]

The gap between this arm and the shell should only be .002"-.003". A piece of printer paper makes a good gapping tool.Be sure you also have the correct locator pins installed, should be marked with a 1 on them. Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy, then tighten the shellplate bolt a bit more. Be sure the ejector wire is not trapped under the head of the shellplate bolt, but is around the head of the bolt.

What is the headstamp on the 45 ACP cases with crushed primers? If marked with a manufacturer code and a date, but not the caliber, then it could be military brass, with crimped primer pockets. These require the crimp be removed before a primer can be seated.

Mark the location in the shellplate where it fails to properly prime. If failure to prime consistantly occurs in the same location, then the shellplate could have been machined incorrectly.

Thx, Dillon -- just an update. I adjusted the locator arm, properly. I tightened the shellplate, and double-checked the wire, and these adjustments seemed to help, though I still got sideways or upside-down primers....(My brass is normal, commercial stuff).

I marked the shell plate, and since it seemed to occur at the same location -- Ah ha! I called Dillon, and received a new plate. Y'all are great.

That said, unfortunately, I'm still having problems.

At this point, I'm leaning to thinking that the Lee dies, especially the FCD is the culprit. The reloading operation is very 'jerky' with these dies... Dunno.

[Rico567]

Unless there is something wrong with your Lee dies, I doubt it. I use the Lee FCD in station 5 with the rest of a Dillon carbide set in .45 ACP. I use only Lee dies with FCD in .40 S&W, .38/.357 and .45 Colt. No problems, and no difference in press operation.

While never having any problem with my Dillon primer feeds, in this situation I would check out the primer punch, the Station 2 locator tab, and shellplate indexing as has been described, then I would completely disassemble, check & clean the primer feed and reassure myself that the primer feed was correctly indexing and feeding a primer with each press cycle, without anything else (cases, powder, etc.) in the press.

[Lee Bell]

I'm finding it extremely frustrating loading .45acp on my Dillon XL650. The primer is getting crushed sideways or inserted upside-down in 1 out of 5 rounds.

This is NOT a problem when I convert to .40S&W. There I can load flawlessly, so something has to be changing when I switch calibers. I am using Lee dies, including the FCD, and the operation is very jerky, I will admit. However, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between rough operation of the handle (because of the FCD or sizing) and a sideways primer....As far as I can tell, the primers are not upside-down at station 2.

I've done a search, but welcome any suggestions. Almost ready to dedicate the 650 exclusively to .40 and just buy an SDB for .45acp.

Don't take this the wrong way, but check to ensure you have the right primer tube inside the primer housing. When I set up my 550, I didn't read close enough to see that there were two primer tube inserts, one for large and one for small primers. If the one you use is too large for the primers you're using, you get the problem you describe. The same goes for using large primers with no tube in place at all.

Lee

[Rico567]

Lee Bell said: "Check to ensure you have the right primer tube inside the primer housing."

Absolutely. Yeah, check that immediately. I didn't even think about that, and it hadn't been that long since I'd read the thread "Big Kaboom Xl650." If you go and read this thread, the poster, "packed," had evidently removed the inner tube by some error, which will just leave a mass of primers to feed haphazardly down into the rotating primer feed plate. He got one sideways, crunched it, and he got the "Dillon Volcano" out the top of the primer feed as all 100 primers went. The wrong size inner primer mechanism tube would also likely produce bad results. When I first started to use the 650, one time I didn't pay attention to the green / yellow tips, and filled a large primer charging tube with SP primers....and got some inverted.

[boo radley]

Good points, but the primer tubes are fine, and the primer magazine tube is correct for .45acp.

Tonight I reloaded a couple hundred, but used a new batch of once-fired brass, and the problem was better, for sure. Maybe 4-5 problems out of 200 instead of 20 or more.

[XD Niner]

Using a casing lube such as Hornady One Shot will help smooth out the loading action. If it is too rough and jerky, the primers may be getting flipped around in the rotating primer disc.

[boo radley]

Using a casing lube such as Hornady One Shot will help smooth out the loading action. If it is too rough and jerky, the primers may be getting flipped around in the rotating primer disc.

Yup, use One Shot -- can't live without it. Anyway, I may have spoke too quickly. In the course of boxing the rounds, another 10, or so, had upside primers after all....This is driving me crazy.

I have *never* had a problem with this, and .40S&W; only .45acp. During this holiday weekend, I'll try cleaning everything, completely, and seeing if that helps.

[sargenv]

What kind of primers? I've found that my 650 HATES CCI anything. I usually give my primer assembly some "wiggle" room and don't tighten the priming assembly down tight, finger tight is good for me and I get no malfunctions now. When I wrenched the two alan nuts down, it gave me issues similar to what you are getting. Since doing it finger tight, I've had no issues.

Vince

[dillon]

Be sure that the correct primer seating punch/bushing assembly is installed, and is threaded completely up into the underside of the platform. I find it helps to remove the primer cam from the upper right side of the frame when checking, as this gives more wrench room. Also be sure the primer seating punch isn't sticking down too far. The top of the bushing should be flush with the top of the platform, and the top of the primer seating punch should be somewhere between flush to .020" below flush with the top of the bushing. The large bushing is silver in color, whereas the small one is a brassy color.

The next step after this is to remove the shellplate, then cycle the handle to operate the primer feed. See if any come up sideways or upside down. If the primer index arm is damaged, it might not fully advance the primer disc. If this occurs, the primer punch being forced up through the disc could be causing the primers to flip, as they are trying to be rotated at the same time.

[boo radley]

What kind of primers? I've found that my 650 HATES CCI anything. I usually give my primer assembly some "wiggle" room and don't tighten the priming assembly down tight, finger tight is good for me and I get no malfunctions now. When I wrenched the two alan nuts down, it gave me issues similar to what you are getting. Since doing it finger tight, I've had no issues.

Vince

These are some great suggestions...I've used CCI, but mostly only Winchester. However, I do have my primer assembly cranked down *tight* - as hard as I could with the allen wrench. I figured if it were loose, it might contribute to the problem. Maybe just the opposite? I'll experiement tonight.

[dillon]

The primer seating punch/bushing assembly is not part of the primer system. It threads up into the underside of the platform. In the manual, see page 52, top portion for the exploded drawing.

[sargenv]

These are some great suggestions...I've used CCI, but mostly only Winchester. However, I do have my primer assembly cranked down *tight* - as hard as I could with the allen wrench. I figured if it were loose, it might contribute to the problem. Maybe just the opposite? I'll experiement tonight.

Yeah, initially I thought that was the issue, but I think someone at a local shop told me that it wasn't a good idea. This was.. almost 10 years ago. I've been doing it finger tight for that long. Sometimes it comes loose, but I just finger tighten it again and no issues.

Vince

[boo radley]

These are some great suggestions...I've used CCI, but mostly only Winchester. However, I do have my primer assembly cranked down *tight* - as hard as I could with the allen wrench. I figured if it were loose, it might contribute to the problem. Maybe just the opposite? I'll experiement tonight.

Yeah, initially I thought that was the issue, but I think someone at a local shop told me that it wasn't a good idea. This was.. almost 10 years ago. I've been doing it finger tight for that long. Sometimes it comes loose, but I just finger tighten it again and no issues.

Vince

Bless ye', Vince!!

Double-checked again I have the right parts (ie, primer punch, etc.) for .45acp, and wasn't using the .40S&W parts by mistake -- I wasn't.

Ran 100 primers through, with no shells, just to see if any were flipping up. They weren't. Removed the primer assembly, and replaced it, but with the screws finger tight.

500 rounds, ZERO upside-down or crushed primers. I think this 'un is licked.