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Firing ping spring


myorke

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Hi,

While sorting my brass today I noticed that my firing pin strikes look just a little shallow.  I'm running a 17# main spring which I believe is heavy enough even for duty carry.  (That being said, I've been considering trying out a 15# main spring.)  I'm also running a titanium firing pin.  I'm thinking that because of it's lighter weight, the pin doesn't have the inertia to make the "deeper" dent in the primer.  Has anyone else noticed this?  I haven't had any problems yet but I'm wondering if I should considered a reduced power firing ping spring.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

Mike

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Titanium firing pin is probably your problem, proved to cause more problems than they were supposed to fix so they're not used by comp shooters anymore.  They seem to have reared their ugly head again though as some manufactuers are putting them in 1911's to pass the CA drop test. Don't even think of putting a reduced power firing pin spring in!!!

JJ

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Quote: from 2alpha on 10:13 pm on Jan. 1, 2002

Don't even think of putting a reduced power firing pin spring in!!!

JJ

Thanks 2alpha!  I'm curious, what are the implications of a reduced power firing pin spring?  I would think that this wouldn't be a problem.  Please "school" me.

Mike

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The firing pin spring is a safety device of sorts. It prevents the firing pin from contacting the primer unless driven forward by the hammer. It helps in preventing the pistol from firing if dropped while loaded.  Pre 80 series of course.

I don't think there is anything to gain by going to a light firing pin spring but some possible liabilities.

JJ

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hmmm I beg to differ on this subject. Maybe my assumptions are wrong but *assuming* that the hammer hits the firing pin with the same force for the same amount of time for both the steel and Ti pin, *then* the pin will travel with the *same* momentum (mass times velocity) irrespective of its material. The Ti pin now travels faster. *Assuming* that what matters when it hits the primer is its *energy* (mass times velocity^2), then the Ti pin actually impacts with *more* energy than the steel pin, leading to *more reliable* ignition! So, myorke, the exact opposite of what you think is the case!

I have used a Ti firing pin with great success for 140k rds in my Para. It had one serious problem in that it is not as strong as the steel pin, and when I initially ran it with the stock mainspring (23 # I think), it got bent over time. After I had figured it out, it ran the next 138k rds with a 17 lb main spring w/o trouble. Does it make a difference? All I can say is that lock time (between pulling trigger and ignition) *is* significant (many ms), and, at least in theory, any reduction in lock time would be beneficial.

Would I be able to tell the difference if you were gonna swap my pin against a steel one? Never!

--Detlef

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Quote: from Detlef on 10:37 am on Jan. 4, 2002

...then the Ti pin actually impacts with *more* energy than the steel pin, leading to *more reliable* ignition! So, myorke, the exact opposite of what you think is the case!


Detlef,

I would agree with all that you've said up until the point where the firing pin actually hits the primer.  At that instant, the object in motion will start to experience negative acceleration (e.g. deceleration).  Titanium may have greater energy just before it hits the primer but this energy, I suspect, is diminished *much* quicker than that of a steel firing pin once it makes contact with the primer.  My concern is that I may not have enough inertia/energy to dent the primer and cause ignition.

Again, I haven't experienced this yet, but I'm keeping my eyes open.  My only concern is that I may run into a problem if I lighten the mainspring further.  And to combat this, maybe a lighter firing ping spring might help out.  I dunno.

Mike

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I was going to stay out of this one, but now it's gettin' too fun. I'm wondering if the "problem" is really one of a combination of all the factors, not just the firing pins calculated energy. Maybe it's like the "soda straw through a telephone pole" analogy. Until the soda straw hits tornado winds type velocity, it will have little effect penetrating the mighty telephone pole. The tough ol' nail, however, will drive into the pole at relatively low velocities. It seems as if the variables of the speed and mass of the straw, and the resistance offered by the pole must be considered?

be

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Quote: from 2alpha on 3:07 am on Jan. 5, 2002

Theories are great but I bet if you poll the top smiths the majority would say stay away from the TI firing pin in a 1911.


I agree with you JJ. My gunsmith told me "NO Titanium firing pins".  The only titanium parts he uses in his set up is, hammer strut, mainspring cap & STI trigger with titanium bows.

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I guess if it works it works and if not. . .  I used a titanium firing pin in my Glock 22 with a stock spring until I wore it out.  Afterward, I installed a skeletonized steel pin that is still in use.  (Roughly, 20,000 rounds total and zero misfires.)  For me, it improved my Glock's trigger more than anything.

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Quote: from benos on 5:05 pm on Jan. 4, 2002

. Maybe it's like the "soda straw through a telephone pole" analogy. Until the soda straw hits tornado winds type velocity, it will have little effect penetrating the mighty telephone pole. The tough ol' nail, however, will drive into the pole at relatively low velocities. It seems as if the variables of the speed and mass of the straw, and the resistance offered by the pole must be considered?

be


Brian,

I grew up in Tornado country (western Kansas).  The secret to the soda straw through the telephone pole lies not in the velocity of the straw.   It is the cyclonic wind twisting the fibers of the telephone pole opening them up allowing the straw to enter to be trapped when the winds pass on.

There's no place like home (click, click) there's no place like home (click, click) there's no place like home (click, click) That's why I live California!

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