aggie dad Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) I just loaded my first rounds on my 550B . While they all case guaged fine in the Dillon case gage, several would not drop into my Glock .40 KKM barrel, and had the infamous bulge at bottom of case. This was despite using a Lee U die. I have not tried any of the new loads at the range yet, but do you think these tight fitting rounds will still be usable? I am somewhat perplexed that they work in a case gage, but do not drop in the barrel OAL is ~ 1.188-1.191, 4.2 gr N320, Fed SP primers, 185 Precision Bullet Thoughts, advice. Thanks, Doug Edited August 31, 2006 by aggie dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 kkm barrels are much tighter than what you will find on your case gauge. I have the same setup and I have the same problem. the rounds that will go in but take a little push, are used for practice. there will be some that you can't get to go into the barrel at all, those get thrown in a coffee can for another .40 that I can shoot them through, granted they will fit into that barrel. the key is you want all your rounds to drop into the barrel nicely, and come out smooth also. If you have to push really hard and the bullet won't go into the barrel. Do not shoot those rounds through your glock, in fact you may not be able to because the slide will not go into battery. When I first started using my kkm barrel I had blown a couple of local matches until I discoverd this problem. I was using the case gauge as the gospel, and if it fit there than it was good to go, thats not the case with the kkm barrel. But other than that you will be please withe accuracy of this barel. Good Luck Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Dan Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 That's my 'red flag' for old brass. You can run your sizing die down a bit--maybe it'll help, maybe it won't. When you see the 'bite mark' where the tempered part of the case meets the annealed part of the case, it's time to chuck the brass. You're best served by keeping all your ammo to spec and not taking chances. If there is any question, chuck it. I think Midway was selling 1000 nickel cases for $24, don't push your luck for twenty bucks. (IMHO) HK Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Thanks guys, the other thing that is interesting with this is I was using Federal nickel plated "once fired" brass that was supposedly "case rolled" also. Should that be happening with this type of brass???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Will a OAL of 1.18\1.19 work in your Glock mags ? Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Dan Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Will a OAL of 1.18\1.19 work in your Glock mags ? Dale Dale, Mine work fine at 1.125". I use both the factory mags and the Schrer +2 extensions and I've yet to have a problem with binding (on the .40). That goes for the G35, the G22, and the G27. All my .40 loads are 1.125" HK Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Will a OAL of 1.18\1.19 work in your Glock mags ?Dale Dale, Mine work fine at 1.125". I use both the factory mags and the Schrer +2 extensions and I've yet to have a problem with binding (on the .40). That goes for the G35, the G22, and the G27. All my .40 loads are 1.125" HK Dan Yes, I am shooting a G20 with a .40 barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Will a OAL of 1.18\1.19 work in your Glock mags ?Dale That's a good point. I don't load anything longer than 1.140", intentionally, for my G35. I dial it into 1.135" and if it's a little over/under, no problem. Having a longer OAL than 1.140 bit me badly, when I changed a bullet profile (Zero JHP -> TCMJ, or whatever it's called). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Guys, For my situation (G20 with 10/40 barrel) this OAL is not an issue. In fact, some will even load longer than I am with this setup. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Great on your choice of the G-20 ,I have been shooting one for the last couple of years .LOVE IT !! If your KKM bbl is short throated ,it might not like the loaded longer rounds . I load all of mine at 1.135 OAL . I shoot a match about every weekend sometimes two on the same weekend,One malfunction all year,[a upside down primer] that I should have caught,but didn't [ knock on wood now that I brought that up] . Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Great on your choice of the G-20 ,I have been shooting one for the last couple of years .LOVE IT !! If your KKM bbl is short throated ,it might not like the loaded longer rounds . I load all of mine at 1.135 OAL . I shoot a match about every weekend sometimes two on the same weekend,One malfunction all year,[a upside down primer] that I should have caught,but didn't [ knock on wood now that I brought that up] .Dale Thanks Dale, I think the throating on my barrel is ok as the bullets are not engaging the rifling at all. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 - When your barrel is tighter than your case gauge...your case gauge is pretty useless. - Ensure that you sizing dies are getting as far down the case as possible. Mine (Lee die in station 1 and FCD in last station) kiss the shell plate pretty good. - As dwt mentioned, triple check to make sure it is the brass and not the chamber that is the hold up (maybe quadruple check ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 - When your barrel is tighter than your case gauge...your case gauge is pretty useless. I also have a DILLON (supposed to be the best, right?) .40 cal. case gauge that is now a paperweight compared to my Barsto Match quality barrel. I used to have a KKM barrel with the same concerns as you. Question: What percentage of your rounds are not dropping into (and out of) your chamber ? I found that 3-5% was not uncommon, even when using the best reloader/die setup, best brass, etc. I just put those rounds in a coffee can marked "Practice ONLY" and went on with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Not in 40, but I also have some Midway case gauges that seemed tighter than the Dillons. There weren't made out of stainless though, and would rust a bit. I usually just threw them in the tumbler with brass every so often to keep them clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockadict Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 +1 on the Lee factory crimp die. I run Dillon, or Redding Dies for all stations except the last (Dillon 550B). I run a Lee factory crimp die for all my calibers. I have KKM barrels in my glock 20, and 24. I have never had a problem chambering a round. I work at a gun range so all of my brass is mixed ranged brass. I have run brass through that has an obvious bulge in it, and all were sized back to spec with the LCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 - When your barrel is tighter than your case gauge...your case gauge is pretty useless.- Ensure that you sizing dies are getting as far down the case as possible. Mine (Lee die in station 1 and FCD in last station) kiss the shell plate pretty good. - As dwt mentioned, triple check to make sure it is the brass and not the chamber that is the hold up (maybe quadruple check ) I am using a u-die in station 1 and it is almost touching the shell plate, perhaps it will be necessary to go with the Lee FCD in station 4, as several folks have suggested. Also, I am assuming the brass is the problem as none of the rounds at this length are engaging the rifling; is that a good assumption??? Question: What percentage of your rounds are not dropping into (and out of) your chamber ?I found that 3-5% was not uncommon, even when using the best reloader/die setup, best brass, etc. I just put those rounds in a coffee can marked "Practice ONLY" and went on with life. I have only loaded 10 test rounds thus far, and 3 out of the ten would not drop into the barrel. Should case rolled once fired brass be having this problem??? Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Dan Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Geez! I don't have that kind of problem AT ALL. When mine fail to chamber it's because I used cheap plated bullets and the plating wrinkled (or something like that). I've loaded a ton of .40--upwards of 100,000 rounds by now. The sizing is critical, so is case inspection, but the single most-likely reason for a round to fail to chamber is the crimp in my experience. Sizing--the last 3/16" by the rim may get "fat" on you. Discard it when the die cuts a clear line in that area (you'll see what I mean when it happens). Saggy brass is okay as long as it re-sizes evenly--most will, but some will have that "machined line" where the tempering meets the annealing. If you feel excessive resistance on the stroke, look at the brass before you prime it. Crimp--Any gap between the bullet and the brass is bad. If you see a dark line there when looking down at it from the top, check it. Also--look at the reflected light on the side of the case--if it's anything but a nice, straight line (i.e. curves outward), run your crimp down 1/16 turn, check it, and repeat until you have a nice straight line there. Have you trimmed your cases? HK Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Dan, I suspect that some of the Federal nickel plated brass that I am using was previously fired thru a glock, and that coupled with a rather tight KKM barrel, is causing this issue. I am going to see if these problem rounds chamber in my buddies SVI as an additional test, but I believe to shoot from the KKM barrel, I am going to need the Lee FCD for final crimp & sizing as others have suggested. Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 The FCD should fix the problem...I load on a square deal B and havent had any problems with rounds chambering in my KKM 40 barrels...though others with dillon 550s and 650s have...and they use the U die alone. I think i would try dillon sizer with Lee FCD in the last station...and check you ammo against your barrel, it is what the ammo has to go in anyway...not a silly gauge. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Thanks Harmon, I will pick up an FCD. On the case lube, I was using oneshot, but maybe I didn't put enough on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Doug, That barrel chamber could have other problems besides your bullet hitting the rifling. You need to clean it out then get your head up in there and have a good look around. It might be "short chambered". It might have some machining grooves that cause some of the brass not to make it in. And, we have no idea of what "tight" is...probably need something to go off of there (measurements). I won't reload 40 without the FCD. The sizing die needs to just touch the shell plate...not almost touch (which could mean a lot of things). You don't want it hitting so hard as to crack the carbide ring, it should just touch. And, that needs to be setup with the other stations being full. You've got a lot of potential issues...kinda hard to figure out without being there. Do you have any buddies that are experienced on the 550 or 650 that could come over and take a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 am using a u-die in station 1 and it is almost touching the shell plate Is this an EGW (machined down) Lee-U die or the standard Lee-U die? The EGW die is machined so that if it is set to "kiss" the shell plate holder you are sizing the case as much as is possible (more so that a standard Lee-U die). The only time I case gauge ammo now is for major matches and I have yet to have any round that has failed as a result of not being sized properly in the last 30,000 or so and this is with variety of diffrent brass as well as multiple firings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 My u-die is an EGW version. Flex, I am having a hard time understanding how this could potentially be a barrel issue when some of the rounds chamber fine; that said I did have an experienced buddy help me dial in the dies and my EGW is set a hair off from touching the shell plate because my decap pin kept releasing when it was touching the shell plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Thanks guys, the other thing that is interesting with this is I was using Federal nickel plated "once fired" brass that was supposedly "case rolled" also. Should that be happening with this type of brass???? If the brass has actually been case rolled you will see an area of fine scratches running around the case extending upwards from the rim about 3/16 of an inch. It is very apparent and easy to detect when a case is "caserolled." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 My u-die is an EGW version. Flex, I am having a hard time understanding how this could potentially be a barrel issue when some of the rounds chamber fine; Not all brass/rounds are created equal. There is always a bit of variance. The few rounds that you get that fail could be bumping up against a just barely right enough barrel. Maybe it's not likely, but from what you've posted so far, I don't know that it can be checked off the list quite yet. (I've heard, posted on this forum a few times, of KKM barrels that didn't quite have the chamber 100%.) that said I did have an experienced buddy help me dial in the dies and my EGW is set a hair off from touching the shell plate because my decap pin kept releasing when it was touching the shell plate Weird. I don't know why your decapper would do that. I'm not feeling much confidence there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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