S&w 625 Trouble

[alellis]

I thought that recently the trigger pull on my 625 was not as smooth as usual.

So this evening I removed the sideplate to take a look see.

I could see some wear on the inside of the plate where something was rubbing.

Upon closer inspection I could see the larger of the two pins on the hand which go into the trigger had worked its way up and was rubbing against the plate.

I took it down and was surprised to find the large pin stayed in the trigger and the small pin came away with the hand,

Correct me if I am wrong but I think both pins should be secure in the hand.

I put it back together and filed the pin down some so it won't rub on the plate.

But it seems the timing is off now on a couple of cylinders.

Is it likely that I could get a new hand and fit it myself or should I call in the experts.

al

[Bubber]

al, I believe that Smith, at one time, changed the hand design to what you were referring to. I seem to remember one of my revos had a "funny" hand in it. I don't know how the timing would go off. I have changed hands before and have been lucky. But there is a lot more experience out here that can answer better than I.

[alellis]

Thanks.

Anyone else. ?

I shoot this gun almost every range trip and would like it sorted asap.

al

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

The model of 1989 used a "floating hand" It was staked to the trigger. If the hand pins are scored or bent it could affect timing.

First check the barrel of the yoke where it goes into the cylinder and make sure it is clean. deposits in that are can slow cylinder rotation and give you a problem with timing. I usually put Corrosion X on the barrel of the yoke, put it into the cylinder, spin it, remove it, wipe it off and do it again. This cleans it good.

Next make sure the pins are straight on the hand and the window it travels through is clean. As for fitting a hand, take a micrometer and get a thickness of the hook. Call S&W tell them what is happening and ask them for a hand with a thicker hook. You may need a couple to get it right. Replacing the floating hand is a little trickier. On those, I usually replace the trigger and use a standard hand.

Good luck,

Gary

PS: If you have a floating hand gun and you pulled the hand off the trigger, you may have broke it.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[AzShooter]

Both pins should stay in the hand. Call Brownells and order a new one. Is your 625 a Model Of 1988? They had a floating hand which was weird. Replacing with a new hand should solve your problems.

[alellis]

If you have a floating hand gun and you pulled the hand off the trigger, you may have broke it.

I gave it a little wiggle and it came off the stake.

It was not running true and there was pronounced marking on it where it rubbed against the frame.

I put it back and burred the stake to keep it on and then filed it down nearly flush so it wouldn't rub on the side plate where it did previously.

The stake appeared bent as the hand wouldn't go smoothly through the gap in the frame so I bent / straightened it so it was smoothy moving through the gap.

At that point I posted last night.

This morning I cleaned the star on the cylinder and oiled up the whole gun and it is locking up on every cylinder now altho one is just about as late as it could be.

I guess I could shoot it safely now but I won't be happy till its properly repaired.

I am pretty adventurish and would tackle putting in a new trigger and hand however I would prefer to go to a gunsmith first rather than have to go in with the parts already purchased for him to finish.

al

[alellis]

Both pins should stay in the hand. Call Brownells and order a new one. Is your 625 a Model Of 1988? They had a floating hand which was weird. Replacing with a new hand should solve your problems.

Yes.

Its the model of '88

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

If it is good on 5 and "close" on the sixth, you should be set. Lock up is meant to be checked with properly weighted dummy rounds. If you are close empty, you will be on with ammo.

FYI-You pay for a hand from Brownell. Many times S&W will send it at No charge Trigger is another story.

If you send it back to S&W it will be gone for the summer I suspect. If it is not something you use a lot, I would go that route.

Regards,

Edited July 14, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[bountyhunter]

Is it likely that I could get a new hand and fit it myself or should I call in the experts.

al

It's not brain surgery but it's not trivial. When I blue print a gun, I install a new hand and balance the star ratchets as needed. The thing to remember is that the hand controls carry up and lock of the cylinder.

NOTE: the ratchets are not all alike. Before taking apart the gun or doing any fitting of the new hand, check all of them and try to identify the "loosest" ratchet position by doing a resistance carry up test and see which position "locks in at the slot" at the latest point of cylinder rotation. Fit the new hand tip to that one so it carries up correctly and slips smoothly past the ratchet after lock. Then, fit each of the other ratchets to the hand by removing a very slight amount of material on the ratchet using the tip of a needle file. You ink the ratchet with a sharpie to see the spot binding and remove a very slight amount of metal, then re-check.

Method: I remove the guts from the frame and install only the hand and trigger (and cylinder), no rebound slide or mainspring. Leave the side plate off for this. Pull slowly and "feel" the carry up. After the cylinder stop bolt locks into the slot, the hand tip must not bind when it slips past the star and move upwards (don't force it if the new hand is too tight). If there is binding, remove a slight amount of material from the LEFT side of the hand tip until it JUST slides by the ratchet without escessive resistance. INITIALLY FIT THE HAND TIP TO THE LOOSEST RATCHET STAR so the rest of the ratchets will be at least fitted correctly, or perhaps a bit too snug.

The process of fitting all of the remaining ratchets to the new hand tip is called "balancing" and must be done very carefully so you don't remove too much metal (or the cylinder will have play in lockup). You want to remove the absolute minimum material to get them all alike. watch the hand tip/rathcet as it carries up and slides off to see the area of the ratchet which needs fitting. mark it with black Sharpie ink to see where it is binding and remove only material from that area.

I also use a red sharpie to mark the top of the ratchet I am fitting so I will be sure to keep working on the same one as I take it in and out of the gun for fitting and filing. (Duh!)

When finished, all cylinder positions will carry up and lock perfectly and the hand will "slip by" with very little resistance after the cylinder bolt locks into the cylinder.

I don't believe SW does this fine-fitting process any more to balance all the ratchets, based on the new guns I have seen. It is extremely time consuming and requires a lot of "file and re-check" steps.

Edited July 14, 2006 by bountyhunter

[Cuz]

First check the barrel of the yoke where it goes into the cylinder and make sure it is clean. deposits in that are can slow cylinder rotation and give you a problem with timing.

Gary

Oh Gary,

Say it ain't so. I got a revo because I hated cleaning guns and figured it would run longer between cleanings than my auto. Now I was told last night that the timing is off on my 625 and it's got me bummed. Of course, the fellow that pointed it out to me also said I should probably clean it first to see if that fixes it, but I'm wondering if there's another solution??? Man, I hate having to clean a gun while it's still capable of firing. I usually wait until it stops working and then clean it and I'm sure this one can go another few thousand rounds before needing to be cleaned. No "lookers" in my safe, they are all shooters and they are all dirty.

-Cuz.

[Carmoney]

Sorry I didn't chime in earlier.....for some reason I missed this thread previously.

Coupla things:

While keeping a revolver clean is certainly a good idea, it will not cure a gun that fails to carry up (usually called, "out of time"). If it's so closely timed that a bit of gunk will cause it to time up late, the gun needs fixed. Go very easy on oil on the inside of a S&W revolver. They are designed to function with little or no oil in the guts. And never use grease in there, I don't care what anybody tells you. The barrel of the yoke where the cylinder spins should be kept clean and get a drop of oil now and then--Mobil1 is marvelous for that application.

That cursed floating hand is one of several reasons I advise people to avoid the earliest 625-2 "Model of 1988" variant as a shooter. My rationale behind this has been posted ad nauseum on this forum as well as the S&W Forum. Trust me, the reason they only made the Model of 1988 for one year is the legion of problems that gun suffered from. But--they can be made into fine-shooting guns, it just costs money to make that happen....

The good news is that nothing is broken and the floating hand can easily be replaced by a standard hand. You may need an oversize hand in order to obtain correct timing, but that's no big problem. You will not need to replace the trigger. In order to install the standard hand, you will need to pull the "male" pin out of the trigger. Vise grips work fine. That's really all there is to it.

I would not advise sending a revolver back to S&W these days. I hate to say it, but there are very few (if any) craftsmen left in that shop who have the slightest idea how to work on the wheels. I've talked to just too many disappointed S&W repair shop customers recently to trust them to fix anything.

[alellis]

Thanks.

I got the new hand from S&W and fitted it surprisingly easily. The gun is working well but appears a little late on one cylinder, but not always.

It is fine in single action but occasionally in double action I don't hear the cylinder lock click into place before the hammer drops.

I shot it a few days ago and everything seemed ok.

I am considering sending it to a smith to get it set up perfect since I really love shooting it.

If I do send it to a smith what other things should I get checked.

It is a major hassle to send stuff to a smith here and would only want to do it once.

Of course I would prefer to do the work myself if I could. Both to save the trouble of sending it off and for the satisfaction of having a slick gun which I worked on myself.

al

[Carmoney]

Al, if it's timing a little late on just one chamber, you might be able to peen the ratchet. This is pretty delicate stuff, but if you're careful and go slow, you should be able to do it. Before starting, it might be worth your while to run a search in the gunsmithing section of the S&W forum. Quite a lot of good technical stuff over there.

[D.carden]

Also......

When checking "time".....Put in a moon clip with dumbie rds or empty cases to take up any of the play in the star/cylinder assembly. This will tighten things up and give a true time reading.......

DanBagger

Edited August 12, 2006 by D.carden