Anyone Seen An Sks For 3 Gun?

[lpspinner]

Being in the PRK kinda limits you on your 3 gun choices. Yes I can use an OLL rifle, but where's the fun without the PG.

So you can reload 10 rounds off stripper clips fairly fast, so I was curious if anyones seen anyone/or has done it?

[ken hebert]

Heck, if you've got to do that already, how about just using a Garand and making major pf while you're at it? Only giving up two rounds to the ChiCom...

[uscbigdawg]

Well two things.

1 - Mike Gibson of MGM does VERY well with his Garand. No fancy clip holders. He just straddles them on a sling-type thing he wears and lets 'em hang. Pretty sweet.

2 - Your best option would be to go with a Ruger Mini-14. There are tons of add-ons for it and the triggers are getting much better. Mark Turin does very, very well with his and 'sargenv' on these boards uses one as well with good results.

Charlie Granger, a gunsmith out of the central valley even made a mag release where you can use your shooting hand thumb (I believe) to drop the mag.

Hope that helped.

Rich

[Blockhead]

+1 on the Mini-14 for Calif. 3 Gun. I just started the 3G game in the last 2-1/2 years. I picked up a Mini-14 from another shooter here in So. Cal. It's been customized by an outfit in South Carolina called Accuracy Systems (see www.accuracysystemsinc.com) with a 1" bull barrel, custom gas block, pillar beading, trigger job, etc... While it's no AR, it's still a great rifle. Quality magazines can be though to find, but they're out there. I've never had a malfunction that wasn't mag. related.

An added benefit for me is that the mini-14 with the bull barrel is the same O.A.L. and weight as my HM rifle, a Springfield M1A Scout. A lot of the ergonomics are compatible and the ammo is a LOT cheaper.

All the same, if circumstances ever allow a move to a less restrictive state, I'll be replacing the Mini with a Benny Hill AR as fast as I can write the check.

Good luck in your quest. Come shoot with us in So. Cal. if you get a chance.

[uscbigdawg]

Forgot to mention that while you'll rarely see Charlie shooting 3-Gun away from Sac, you will find Mark and SARGENV at Richmond matches. They're both very approachable and will definitely give you the skinny on what's out there for the Mini.

Rich

[ipscbob]

Being in the PRK kinda limits you on your 3 gun choices. Yes I can use an OLL rifle, but where's the fun without the PG.

So you can reload 10 rounds off stripper clips fairly fast, so I was curious if anyones seen anyone/or has done it?

Since you seem to be fixated on the pistol grip, the Mini-14 is in fact not legal in that configuation. Other than the previously mentioned Magazine issues, I think that the mini action is superior to the AR and with quality smithing they can be tack drivers. Looks like the SKS or some other type of FIXED magazine setup may be your only choice. Why so set on having a pistol grip?

[lpspinner]

I'm not fixated on the PG. It's just doesn't feel right holding an AR or an FAL without the PG.

I would have no problem using the Mini-14 in the standard stock. In fact, I've thought about using my M1 Carbine and also a MAS 49 (I have plenty of Mags). None of those have PGs.

What I'm trying to avoid is having to buy another gun initially and use what I have. Until they come up with a Kaliforniaize ergonomical functional stock for the AR... I'll keep the PG off my OLL.

[uscbigdawg]

Of the two you've listed the M1 Carbine is going to be your better bet. The MAS in my opinion isn't going to be close to competitive.

Like I said, more than a few run M1 Garands, and those can be had for a steal (especially from the CMP...or whatever it's called now). Frankly, I don't like SKS's. I had one and it would shoot lights out with PMC ammo no less, but sold it when I decided to shoot IPSC/USPSA.

If you want to shoot 3-Gun in California, get a Mini-14. Cheap, and tons of mods out there. Heck, playing with my fathers, just polishing some trigger parts and working up some loads for it, it's shooting about 0.8-1.0 MOA with the factory barrel. I was surprised. 62gr. bullet (can't remember who's...but I'll find out) and W748 or H335 (2 of Dad's 3 favorite powders).

Rich

[p99shooter]

This may be way off base, but from what I've heard from some shooters in my club, a stock mini-14 will shoot pie-plate sized groups at 100 yards. If that's true, I don't see the point in spending $700 on a sub-par rife, then spending another $700 (or more) to get it good.

I'm waiting to hear reports from fellow shooters on the Keltec SU-16ca. At least two folks in my club got them recently, so they are still being broken in.

Not a lot of other options though.

[uscbigdawg]

Mini-14's can be had for less than $500 all day long. Add in a good trigger job, maybe a better barrel. Good stock (Turrin's is SWEEEEET!) and some glass...done. Spend the rest of your money on mags and ammo.

As for pie plate groups, trigger control is your new best friend. Too, playing with bullet weights and powders will help too.

Rich

[p99shooter]

What kind of money are we talking about for the trigger job, stock, and barrel? Retail for a mini-14 where I live is $690; are you talking used or online prices?

I've been looking at getting a rifle in CA, and I want to make sure I'm getting the most for my money. It's hard enough trying to convice my wife to spend the money to get a rifle; imagine trying to tell her that "it's not good enough the way I bought it, so I have to spend more!"

As far as trigger control, I was talking about experienced rifle shooters, no someone who never shot a rifle before.

[uscbigdawg]

I know where you're at and don't buy anything from the thieves for gun dealers in Sacramento. Come to Yolo on the 9th for the IPSC match there (if you shoot there) or the NCPS match in July and I'll give you the phone number for my dealer. He's in Martinez and usually does Cost + 10% + Shipping.

After that, drop say another $400-500 in it and you're into it for around $1k. About the price of a good AR. The trigger job, really, if you have good mechanical skill, you can do yourself. I'm not a gunsmith by any means and I did my father's. Just polished everything pretty much and it helped out tremendously. The stated groups are from a stock Ruger barrel and stock. Good glass, decent trigger, great ammo.

It can be done and done affordably.

Rich

[Overkill]

There's been a couple kel-tecs shooting out at NCPS and they seem to be doing all right.

[Trail3]

One shooter I know shot a SKS, but reloading is slow. he bought a Kel-Tec, likes it, still breaking it in.

In Ca. you are really limited, in 223. Volquartsen has the Evolution, takes AR mags,

shoots under 1" but cost $2000, Mini 14 set up, mine was done by ASI, about as much as the Volquartsen, will shoot 1" at 100, and shot the 10" plates at 325 yards with no

problem at the 3 Gun Nationals last year. If you just want a rifle to shoot at local club matches out to 100-200yds, the Kel-Tec SU16-CA Model is your best choice for the money. I have one also. Fun gun. I would also replace my rifles with an AR platform if I could. JP or Benny Hill.

[chp5]

A local shooter shoots one and does well with it. He uses the detachable mags. Reloading is a disadvantage, but he beats many shooters with their ARs!

You gotta respect a guy who does more with less . . .

Edited July 1, 2006 by chp5

[lpspinner]

Trail3....Did he reload with stripper clips?

chp5....SKS with detachable mags are considered AW...can't go that route.

Here are my options....

1) try and see how the SKS with stripper clips would work.

2) use an M1 Carbine

3) use my MAS 49

4) find an inexpensive used Mini-14

5) spend the cash for an SU-16

6) wait for all the politicians to get booted out of office, then have the AW banned repealed and use an AR15.

eta:

7) forget about shooting 3 gun in Kalifornia and stay in Colorado on weekends and shoot there.

Edited July 2, 2006 by lpspinner

[George]

Get a KelTec and go find some AR mags ;-)

Otherwise just shoot the 'Biner

[OLD SF MJT]

LP,

These are just my thoughts:

You do have a few workable options to begin playing with, depending on what sort of money you are willing to shell out.

If you like the SKS AND you can find one without that gawd-awful grenade launcher, that seems to me to be the most cost effective route. There are a few mods available out there - there are folks who will re-work the trigger - Millett offers a Scout Mount setup to facilitate mounting an optic - there's a neat replacement rear sight, I think it's called the 'Tech Sight' that is a great improvement over the issue item - and there are some good replacement stock options. These will give you a good basic rifle to work with. I have used the rifle in local 3-gun shoots and have done respectably. If you are a fairly big man, this is a benefit. The gun IS a bit of a club and doesn't handle ALL THAT WELL! Not unlike the Garand (Sorry!). You'll help yourself a lot by becoming fluid with your reloads...practice, practice, practice!!!

Next Option: Is the SAIGA line of rifles legal in the PRK (10 rd detatchable box mag and a 'sporter' stock)? If so, this might offer an excellent option. Rugged as an anvil, reliable as the sun coming up in the East and respectably accurate. And not too pricy!!! The down side: Lousy trigger with not a lot of recourse. Aside from good mounts for optics, there are next to no mods available. Still, she's a lot of gun for the money! There is a lot of info on the website SAIGA-12.com. You might want to check it out.

Next is the Ruger. Rock solid platform and getting better as we speak. Plenty of mods & options out there, just lick your VISA card & stick it to your forhead!!!! It won't be cheap! (Good stuff seldom is!)

I really like the M-1 Carbine, but it too has some limits. They are seldom cheap to acquire or feed and they have limits as to optics & range. For short-range stuff and for SHTF personal protection, though, loaded with good-quality expanding ammo, there isn't anything better. YMMV!

Well, those are my thoughts. YMMV! "I'm no expert, though I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!" Good luck to you.

Old SF

[lpspinner]

OLD SF MJT, Thanks for the suggestions.

I would like to hear more about your experience shooting the SKS in 3-gun.

I'm sort of an SKS "collector" actually more of an accumulator. I have several versions of the SKS so the GL is not an issue. One thing I would do is use the ATI Monte Carlo stock. In fact, I have one built with a fixed flush fitting 5 round mag for Hog hunting. That stock would give me a normal LOP. Reloads with stripper clips would require a little more practice. Trigger clean-up I can do myself or send it out to the many SKS triggersmiths out there. Most are in the $30-40 area. I'm 5'10" 190lbs, so a non-GL SKS works well for me.

Unforunately the Saiga line is banned by name. However, since I do play with 80% receivers, I was reading about someone building a Saiga from a Romy kit. (Which I have some.) While there are plenty of documentation on the web about converting a Saiga to an AK, there is no documentation about building a Saiga. From what I've read, it's only the readjustment of 2 pins. Just trying to find the exact measurments is the issue.

If I do this, I actually have two options, the least expensive is to use a Romy kit and build it into a Saiga type of semi-automatic rifle or buy an AK74 kit and build that into a .223 Saiga type. The 1st would be less expensive then buying a Mini14 and since I have everything already..it would just be labor.

Thru my many decades of collecting guns, I've never bought a Mini-14. Now I wish I had.

As for food for the M1 Carbine, well, I just aquired several pounds of Hercules (now Alliant) 2400 powder and that's good for the M1 Carbine. Loaded close to max should do well.

Through my many years of traveling, I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, but have stayed at a Holiday Inn Holidome once in Fresno for 3 weeks.

Thanks again for your opinons.

[Overkill]

Dont write off the short M1A....Scout or SOCOM. You pay more for ammo, but you shoot major, got 20round box mags, and there's a dedicated class, heavy metal, for you to shoot in.

With the sks its all bad since you're shooting minor, and making a slow reload every 10 round agianst guns that are more accurate, and reload quickly with 30 round mgs.

[Trail3]

The shooter I know used stripper clips for the SKS.

[lpspinner]

The shooter I know used stripper clips for the SKS.

hmmmm, and he had issues or nothing that a lot of practice can't resolve?

[OLD SF MJT]

LP,

Looks like we have something in common..."accumulating" firearms! No real rhyme or reason...we just acquire shooters that catch the fancy!

For 3-gun, I use my 1951 Tula Arsenal SKS with the above-mentioned Millett Scout Base and a Bushnell 30mm red dot, an ATI replacement stock & stripper clips.

I shoot tactical-style 3-gun to help maintain proficiency (I'm a Guardsman) as well as have a load of fun! Mostly I use my AR carbine, but now & then I use any of several other semi-auto long guns in my safe...an ecclectic mix, to be sure! Includes a Saiga in 5.56mm, an M-1 Carbine & a Ruger Mini-30. Plus the SKS. And don't let folks BS you - With practice, you can reload as fast as any Garand shooter (PLUS you have the option of optics) and most with M-1A's or the Ruger. It's just that you have only 10 rounds compared to 20 or 30! Again - PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

Man, I'm sorry to hear that the Saiga is banned out there. For the money, that's probably the best buy out there in a semi-auto! (Have you considered moving EAST???)

As far as the M-1A goes...They really are the best option that you have out there in the PRK! IF you can afford it! They don't come cheap! Neither is the ammo, compared to 5.56 or 7.62X39. Personally, I'd go with the 18 in. barrel version - don't recall the model. To me, that's the best compromise. They are about as 'handy' as a bigger gun can be. I've shot the SOCOM (16 in. bbl.), the Squad Scout (that's the name!) and the full-sized variety. The Scout is my choice. Fantastic gun. Just a tad on the expensive side!

Sort of depends on what your goals are in 3-gun. I shoot to learn, improve, maintain & enjoy! I try to attack each stage like it was a tactical engagement, I don't go in and hose things like some gamers. But that's just me! No offense to the gamers. They have their own goals! Me? I'm not going to win any championships or anything. I just hope to improve!

That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it! YMMV!

Old SF

[lpspinner]

Old SF.... Thanks for the insights. I also live in Colorado, so I have no problems there, but since I work in the PRK and starting to spend more time here....I need to find something that works.

The DOJ is trying to change the code here again and the SKS might be affected. They're trying to redefine the definition of a fixed magazine.

If they don't, then I've got a Russian SKS barreled action and the TAPCO T6 stock I can use.

My goal is to have fun. I'm far from trying to win any matches, so it's just having fun and developing my skills.

[XRe]

One quick thing I've noticed about reloading my SKS w/ stripper clips... (sounds like something at the nudie bar, don't it??)....

I find it helps if I keep my index finger under the nose of the top round, and then push down on the base of the top round with my thumb. This allows me to keep the top round lined up nice w/ the rails in the clip, instead of them trying to bind. That seems to require much less effort and works more smoothly. They're still going to be relatively slow, but I imagine w/ practice will become not to horrible, in the end....