Merlin Orr Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Pity.Actual shooting of IDPA and Internet rants about IDPA rules and procedures are entirely separate sports. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 dudes and dudettes...this occurance did not happen at a major match....unless you all consider 9 shooters a major match...the point i was making, was my orginal point said.. if a COF said to start behind a wall, barricade ,etc and the shooter walks up,loads up and then expouse themselves and you[me] as a S>O> gently tapps the shooters foot back around,and you [me] the SO tells the shooter to realign back up.... and the shooter goes right back and does it again..[did it 3 times...however no pe was givin,becuase i've been married for over 30 yrs and know how to handle a ***ch.. ]how many times does the SO does this before giving a PE....just a question...thats it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 how many times does the SO does this before giving a PE....just a question...thats it... It has been answered here. Go back and reread the thread. You can't give a procedural until after the standby command. As I said before I would have warned him once then allowed him to the run the stage as he seemed to be determined to and then given him a procedural for failing to follow the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'll try to keep this positive: The call wasn't a "mistake" by an inexperienced SO. It wasn't even a "call", it was a warning. No PE was assessed. The SO's "call" was backed up by IDPA HQ. If you think rule discussions in IDPA are intense, take a look at topics like this one: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35129 Every sport will have discussion and debate about interpretations on rules. IDPA is no different, and that shouldn't single out IDPA as a bad sport. What is stirring up all of the fuss here is reminiscing about prior bad experiences with an SO. Every sport has it's bad referees too; that's not IDPAs fault either. I SO regularly at our club matches. I know the rulebook inside and out. I'm safe and I'm fair. The thing to remember is that we all participate in volunteer sports. SOs don't get paid. If you think that the SOing at your club matches or other matches isn't quality, read the rulebook yourself and volunteer. Lead by example. As far as the topic at hand: You can't assess a PE until after the "standby" command. Don't issue the standby command until the shooter is ready. If the shooter keeps trying to re-position before standby, warn once. If he keeps persisting, and to unload and show clear, and move him to the back of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 So how about all the fule freaks just read the rule book and do perhaps the most repeated rule in the book and give the shooter the benefit of the doubt!!! An obvious infraction deserves a penalty. An SO's subjective opinion or preferance is worth no more than anybody elses and should stay completely out of the equation!!! Also consider the IDPA phrase that it is "supposed to be about the shooting." Rules are guidelines not the objective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 We sure had gone a long time since the last flame war about IDPA rules...need to curtain this one before it heads down that same slippery slope...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Cynical answer: ESP shooter - right? Send them directions to an IPSC match. Sorry - couldn't resist. Real answer: The shooter was not prepared - step him/her down the order. Next time he/she answers the question "Do you understand the course of fire?" - tell him/her to make sure he/she knows what that means. Craig Edited August 16, 2006 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 Cynical answer: ESP shooter - right? Send them directions to an IPSC match yup.................and by the way..............he hadn't shot ipsc for 10 years[?]....so he thought he'd try idpa......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Cynical answer: ESP shooter - right? Send them directions to an IPSC match yup.................and by the way..............he hadn't shot ipsc for 10 years[?]....so he thought he'd try idpa......... That's pretty funny. Here's my next prediction: Sharpshooter or Expert Most MM haven't figured out the questions and most MA know the answers. Just for the record - I have may ESP SS & EX friends. I need to get out more... Craig Edited August 16, 2006 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Jim, I repectfully disagree. Every IDPA match I attend seems to be or at some point turn into a rant about the rules or what the rules are or if they have been broken or not etc.....I recently had an IDPA "official" run up to the SO after I shot to try to get him to give me a penalty that the SO obviously did not think was justified. Why can't we just shoot our guns and live and let live. It is supposed to be about the SHOOTING not the darned RULES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4sooth Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Locally we have used starting positions which preclude creeping or peaking. When using a barricade have the shooter start in the middle so no amount of leaning will expose the target array.Hands in or on marks or holding a rope or other device that is attached to the barrier. On the subject of ROs with unusual ideas or misconceptions about the rules--I had a strange rule interpretation while attending the Florida state match at Eglin AFB in the 80s. During the walkthrough the RO explained that due to the low(and just built) berms any time while the shooter was engaging targets and the muzzle went above HORIZONTAL, which caused the gun to briefly point over the berm,that this was unsafe gun handling and would result in match DQ.She also explained that during reloading the gun must point at the ground---not up in the air or over the berm as this is also unsafe and would be a match DQ. One of the shooters pointed out that every time anyone fired the gun it briefly pointed ABOVE horizontal and would that not violate her idea of unsafe?She agreed that it would indeed be unsafe and we should be sure that it did not happen. Two shooters hauled out their $100 and said that they were protesting and to get the match director right now.She threatened to have them removed for unsportsman like conduct.The rest of us told her she was out of line and needed to call the director and settle the issue. After 15-20 minutes things were sorted out (she was sent to the stats shack) and we shot what was a very fun stage.Started with two Kansas double speed setups and proceeded to some very tricky poppers through some high and low ports. Very good match and beautiful ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 where in the rule book does it state you must stand fully erect?, hands naturally at your side is one thing, but being hunched over a bit in the position you shoot is not against the rules at all, it is in fact a very good to be fully in the position you shoot from, and limit the movement when the timer goes off I agree. Actually, every self-defense oriented handgun training class I've ever been through - and I've attended a bunch of them - has mentioned that at the first hint of danger you should, as closely as possible within the parameters of the situation, get into your shooting stance to absolutely minimize your draw and fire time. Does leaning slightly forward and crouching negatively impact my mobility in a real situation? Quite the opposite versus standing bolt upright. So why would doing that to begin a scenario be a bad thing? It's called "getting ready to fight." I tend to do it automatically these days, without even thinking about it. On the subject of ROs with unusual ideas or misconceptions about the rules--I had a strange rule interpretation while attending the Florida state match at Eglin AFB in the 80s.During the walkthrough the RO explained that due to the low(and just built) berms any time while the shooter was engaging targets and the muzzle went above HORIZONTAL, which caused the gun to briefly point over the berm,that this was unsafe gun handling and would result in match DQ.She also explained that during reloading the gun must point at the ground---not up in the air or over the berm as this is also unsafe and would be a match DQ. One of the shooters pointed out that every time anyone fired the gun it briefly pointed ABOVE horizontal and would that not violate her idea of unsafe?She agreed that it would indeed be unsafe and we should be sure that it did not happen. Two shooters hauled out their $100 and said that they were protesting and to get the match director right now.She threatened to have them removed for unsportsman like conduct.The rest of us told her she was out of line and needed to call the director and settle the issue. After 15-20 minutes things were sorted out (she was sent to the stats shack) and we shot what was a very fun stage.Started with two Kansas double speed setups and proceeded to some very tricky poppers through some high and low ports. Most ROs/SOs are thoughtful, intelligent, experienced people who do a great job. And then you have people like that. I wonder how many squads went through, on which she got away with it, before your squad showed up. Not many, I'll bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4sooth Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Duane our squad was the second of the day on that stage.She did tell the previous squad the same thing but they ignored her and no one was DQ'd. Go figure. This is the only bad experience I have ever had with a RO at any major match. As you say most are ready to bend over backwards to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markd Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 For Bones, GMAN, and anybody else, I just figured it out. I AM the "agressive shooter" this thread is about. For what it is worth I don't need any directions to IPSC; I started that around 1987 and am perfectly capable of finding it now. Secondly, I did not "just think I would try IDPA". I took up IDPA in the late 90s and won the Mississippi State IDPA match in 98/99 using a stock Gold Cup in .45 acp so I resent the implication that I just popped up at a match one day and "thought I would give IDPA a try." I also have the match on video tape that I am being ridiculed here for and will be happy to provide a copy if need be to anyone who would like to see if the problem was really an "agressive shooter" or perhaps one of the infamous range Nazi SOs with a chip on his shoulder against both IPSC shooters and really good shooters! I am trying to resolve this respectfully by PM with the originator but I am pretty weary of the lack of respect being showed. It is pretty easy to sit behind a computer and laugh and make fun of a shooter without knowing the facts or the real track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Insert shaking head icon here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 From Bill Noyes sig line: "Say it fast: the topic might be closed any sec---" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 ima45dv8, The common term seems to be IBTC (in before the close), I think? ------------------- This thread has gone past the scope of this forum. CLOSED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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