ECM242 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hi, I'm to to the sport as well as the site but have been shooting since I was a teen. I was confused as could be about the classes but this helped alot. I only shot one practice match and shot a stock G19. I believe this was "Production. The gun I want to shoot is a G21 that I kind of made to look like an HK USP Tactical. It started out as a G21C. I got a non ported EXT threaded barrel, a magwell and EXT mag release (I'm a lefty). Could you tell me so I'm positive what class this gun would shoot in? I have the options of EXT threaded, ported, and I could even get a normal sized non ported barrel. I would also appreciate what minor changes could be made to it to make it in diff classes. A bunch of the guys there had super race guns with optics. If I have to shoot in that class, I think im going to come in last every shoot... This is a pic of the 21 I wish to shoot. G21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 For that setup, L10 or L depneding on your mags, not production legal, your 19 isn't production legal either with the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECM242 Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 For that setup, L10 or L depneding on your mags, not production legal, your 19 isn't production legal either with the grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the reply. I'm in FL and use standard cap mags (13 rounds). So the ext barrel is ok for limited but not the compd' barrel correct? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 For that setup, L10 or L depneding on your mags, not production legal, your 19 isn't production legal either with the grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> L2S, What's not legal about the 19? US21.6 allows the rubber sleeves like the Hogue in the picture. I don't shoot Production much so I probably missed something. ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 You really can't have an extended barrel in any Division except for Open. I had a G24 barrel that I put into my G35. No big deal, I thought. But, some consider that "an external weight" that may reduce recoil. No go for Limite or Limited-10. Stick with the mostly stock G19 for Production, or get a standard barrel for the G21 and shoot it in Limited-10. The magwell and (after market) extended mag release are legal for Limited-10, but not for Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobert1 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 For that setup, L10 or L depneding on your mags, not production legal, your 19 isn't production legal either with the grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> L2S, What's not legal about the 19? US21.6 allows the rubber sleeves like the Hogue in the picture. I don't shoot Production much so I probably missed something. ...Mark <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If your factory grip does not have finger grooves, then your sleeve cannot. That changes the profile of the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 If your factory grip does not have finger grooves, then your sleeve cannot. That changes the profile of the grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mmmmm.... I read it differently. "21.6 Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the application of grip tape or rubber sleeves is permitted. Modifications to grips, other than previously mentioned, not allowed, such as grooves cut to reach mag release or size reduction." The Hogue sleeve isn't an aftemarket grip, per se. It doesn't replace the original grip. It's probably best described as an enhancement. Then, if we start at, "...or the application of grip tape or rubber sleeves is permitted", it seems that unless it said the grip tape or sleeve could or couldn't have grooves in keeping with the original grip configuration, then they're not excluded. I could be wrong (happens a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 My understanding is you can't use Hogue grips because it changes the profile of the grip. If you use a sleeve it has to match the profile. I might have it wrong, but it makes sense or thing could get way out of control with defining what a "sleeve" grip is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 My understanding of the "rubber sleeve" clause in the rule was specifically to allow the Hogue type grips..... Lots guys put a Hogue sleeve on, then cover it in an Agrip..... instant modified grip shape, but since its not permanent, or done to the actual grip frame, legal? And seeing as there are Glock frames out there with and without the finger grooves already, really who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 The above post were split from another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think people are getting USPSA confused with IPSC. Hogue sleeves are legal in USPSA, verboten in IPSC. Or at least I'm pretty sure that was the case the last time I laid the rulebook on the Ouija board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think people are getting USPSA confused with IPSC. Hogue sleeves are legal in USPSA, verboten in IPSC. Or at least I'm pretty sure that was the case the last time I laid the rulebook on the Ouija board. That was my take on it too, but I'd have to look that one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 You really can't have an extended barrel in any Division except for Open. Why wouldn't it be legal for limited 10 or limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 As I said, some (Amidon) consider it an "external weight", which would make it against the rules for L and L-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 As I said, some (Amidon) consider it an "external weight", which would make it against the rules for L and L-10. So a 6" barrel in a standard glock is illegal, but a glock longslide is legal? This is limited not production, I would think that short of a comp and optic it would be legal. Look at the sv sighttracker and the new sti, those are not considered barrel weights. I wouldn't consider an extended barrel by itself a barrel weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) Look at the sv sighttracker and the new sti, those are not considered barrel weights. They are factory configurations, produced in numbers claimed to meet the criteria for Limited. You can reproduce a factory legal configuration from parts, and be legal in Limited. A long barrel in a standard slide, is not something produced by the factory, thus yours would be a weight and/or a prototype. Edited May 13, 2006 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Doug, you are preaching to the choir. I didn't think much of having the G24 barrel sticking out of my G35, it certain didn't change the feel of the recoil to my perception. (When I ordered the barrel from Brownell's they only had a G24 barrel in stock, so that is why I got one to put into my G35.) I shot mine with the barrel hanging out for a while. Then somebody mentioned that it might be considered "an external weight" by some. So, I asked Amidon his opinion. Amidon gave me the opinion (not a ruling) that it was considered an external weight. Seeing as I was going to shoot the Nationals, and he was working as Range Master...and, I didn't want the distraction of fighting it in an arbitration...I hacked it off to G35 length, cleaned/squared it up with a file, and re-crowned the muzzle. You make a good argument, but it needs to be taken to the BOD and NROI. (I think there are already a few threads around here if you need some ammo to use.) Look at the sv sighttracker and the new sti, those are not considered barrel weights. They are factory configurations, produced in numbers claimed to meet the criteria for Limited. You can reproduce a factory legal configuration from parts, and be legal in Limited. A long barrel in a standard slide, is not something produced by the factory, thus yours would be a weight and/or a prototype. I don't buy that either, although that is likely the thought process. I didn't cobble up a one of a kind barrel in my secret laboratory, I just bought a mass-produced barrel. Kinda like a 6 inch slide on a Caspian or Springfield...they don't come that way in any factory configuration, they are "parts or components" (which is the wording from the rule). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 US APPENDIX D7 Limited Division Special conditions: 16. Any complete handgun or components produced by a factory and available to the general public for one year and 500 produced. Prototypes are specifically not allowed. 17. Only porting of barrels is prohibited. Slides may be ported. 18. External modifications such as weights, or devices to control or reduce recoil are specifically not allowed, such as but not limited to, thumb rest, extended slide stops, etc. 19. Internal modifications to improve accuracy, reliability and function are allowed. E.g. spherical bushings, Acc-U-Rails, replacement barrels provided the barrel length is the same as original factory standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Good catch. (I think that must have been a change from the red book to the green book?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 (I think that must have been a change from the red book to the green book?) Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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