Uspsa Classification Question

[revchuck]

Folks - I'm asking this here because I'm not sure I'd get a clear answer on the "correct" forum.

I know that the method of getting classified in the bottomfeeder divisions is pretty cut and dried, but I've heard strange rumors that the scores of classifiers shot by revolver shooters aren't compared to other revolver shooters, but to another divison. Is this accurate, or just bovine scatology?

I'll be shooting an all-classifier match next month, so I'm curious.

Thanks!

[cliffwalsh]

As I understand it, the only divisions that are compared heads up are limited and open. The others are based off limited. L-10 uses the same high hit factors as Limited. Production uses the high limited HF less 5%. For Revolver, the old 99 - ?? classifiers use limited less 10% and the new 03 - ?? classifiers use limited less 30%.

If you want to move up, shoot the 03 classifiers.

I guess we need an AD to chime in here.... I'm pretty drunk

[underlug]

Folks - I'm asking this here because I'm not sure I'd get a clear answer on the "correct" forum.

I know that the method of getting classified in the bottomfeeder divisions is pretty cut and dried, but I've heard strange rumors that the scores of classifiers shot by revolver shooters aren't compared to other revolver shooters, but to another divison. Is this accurate, or just bovine scatology?

I'll be shooting an all-classifier match next month, so I'm curious.

Thanks!

Revchuck: It is accurate.........it is bovine scatology

[AFDavis11]

Is this why I see so few Revolver GMs and M Class shooters?

[Ron Ankeny]

I know for a fact the CM99 classifiers are Limited less 10%. Limited minus 30% on the 03 classifiers is news to me.

OK, I just came back from the Ohio Calculator. I entered a hit factor of 7 for CM03-4 in Limited and came up with 71% and change. I entered 7 for revolver and came up with 102%. Looks like the 03 series hit factors are indeed 30% under limited. Looks like revolver classifications don't mean Jack. But I think we already knew that.

Edited April 14, 2006 by Ron Ankeny

[hopalong]

AFDavis11.......

yes, that is why!

There are so few revolver shooters by percentage of USPSA membership that USPSA will not use revolver results only in the classifiers.......can't hardly blame them for adminsitrative purposes and costs.

Until we get more that will be the way it is.

Ron.....

You got it!

another note:

It is my opinion....and maybe a few others too....

That the revolver division will kind of be messed up for a while.......Because of the "MAN". Mr. Miculek.

There are good wheelgunners and there is Jerry. We as a group are slowly catching up with him but it will take a while....Noah did not build the ark in a day and we will not catch a man that has been doing it for 20+ years in 3 or 4 either.......and still enjoy what we are doing. Until then there will be good wheelgunners like Master Walsh, Psky2, Mr. Ankeny, Rudi, D. Carden, and even Carmoney fits in this catagory (loosely ) and then there is Jerry.

I will compare it to....lets say take TGO now and put him in a fledgling USPSA/IPSC community 12 to 15 years ago.....That is what we have in Revolver.

Yes, Jerry shoots very few classifiers so he won't mess up that system too much....IF USPSA was to go to using results for each division for that division....UNTIL then it will be compared to Limited results....sometimes a good comparison, sometimes not......take it as it is and like RON said......REALLY means SQUAT in the Wheelgun division.

Hopalong

[lefty45]

Heck, I thought I was shooting better and I find out they lower the standards. Oh well!

[Carmoney]

My opinion (see Hopalong's "noses and asses" tagline regarding opinions):

Right now I don't see any top shooters that are actually achieving GM hit factors on classifiers. Go look at Jerry's, he's only a GM because he wins the big matches he shoots.

On the other hand, there are a few folks whose local clubs will allow them to shoot and re-shoot lots and lots of classifiers (and then maybe only send in the good ones), and these guys have inflated classes that they can't actually perform to at a real match against real competition. Plus a few that are really good at "stand and shoot" or standards stages, but who can't run field courses worth a crap.

Very few sandbaggers in this division, or so it appears.

Oddly enough, for all my complaining about the class system as it applies to wheelguns, my own classifier percentage (based partly on classifiers and partly on match performance) is amazingly accurate compared to my performance against our lone GM at last year's Nationals. And Cliff's and Dan's are not too far off the mark, either.

[AFDavis11]

I can live with that . . .

The 10 and 30 percent variance is an interesting cut off.

I don't understand why it costs more to compare revolver shooters to each other, but thats ok.

I've seen Rudy shoot a few times and I thought he was using a machine pistol. I can do without that.

[Carmoney]

I can live with that . . .

The 10 and 30 percent variance is an interesting cut off.

The truly crazy part is that all the 03-series classifiers seem to use the 30% discount rate off the Limited HHFs, without regard to whether the classifier is six-round-neutral or not. Most revolver guys will wind up with inflated percentages on the six-round-neutral 03- classifiers, and have unrealistically low percentages on those that are not six-round-neutral.

Bottom line, and we've said this here before, wheelgunners need to just forget the whole classification redistribution system and just shoot heads-up like men. There are never enough of us at any given match to give any meaning to the class thing anyway. Your goal should not be "High C" or "High A" or whatever, your goal should be "Division Win" or "Top 5" or "Beat Cliff" or something like that.

[D.carden]

"Coming this Summer to a Theater near you"...................( Beat Cliff )

Well said....Mike

Just get in there and shoot people...................

Edited April 14, 2006 by D.carden

[Luke Fay]

I will bring the beat Cliff Stick, anyone who has shot with him should have one handy in there range bag

Luke

[Ron Ankeny]

Plus a few that are really good at "stand and shoot" or standards stages, but who can't run field courses worth a crap.

I represent that remark. Let me tell you a little story. I shot revolver for a season solely for the purpose of going M class in all divisions. I dominated the stand and shoot stuff locally (across all iron sighted divisions), and I just kicked the crap out of revolver neutral classifiers on a regular basis. The local guys thought I was a wheel gunning speed demon straight from the gates of Hades.

Then I shot a club match that consisted of long courses against John Fishback (spelling) at the Dubois gun club. John beat me for high overall and he is a "B" class shooter. John ROed me on a couple of courses and in turn I ran him. The squad indulged us by allowing us to review the timer to see what was going on. As you probably guessed, I smoked him on the trigger as far as the draw, splits, and transitions across the board. But he absolutley kicked my behind on the reloads, and he knew how to break a stage down for revolver shooting. While I was fumbling around with reloads and trying to remember where I left off and what to do next, he was crushing me. To be honest, my ego needed a good butt whoopin'.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Ron Ankeny