Bullet Hole Patterns W/ Rainer Bullets

[Beethoven]

Recently at the Dust Deliv Classic I was experencing some odd looking bullet holes. There was a sprial pattern on the target right around the bullets hole. It almost looks like the plating is burnt off and the bullet is melting on its was to the target. It happened on all the targets up to about 5 feet away.

Btw this is w/ 9mm major PF. About 179PF with Pwer Pistol pweder.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

I don't think there is a problem but i just thought it was odd. Or maybe there is???

[Chris Keen]

You shouldnt be loading Rainiers to use at Major 9 velocities.

[Flyin40]

Recently at the Dust Deliv Classic I was experencing some odd looking bullet holes. There was a sprial pattern on the target right around the bullets hole. It almost looks like the plating is burnt off and the bullet is melting on its was to the target. It happened on all the targets up to about 5 feet away.

Btw this is w/ 9mm major PF. About 179PF with Pwer Pistol pweder.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

I don't think there is a problem but i just thought it was odd. Or maybe there is???

Sounds like the plating is separating. What grain bullet are you shooting and whats velocity??? I think Rainiers separate around 1300. If your using 124gr bullets that about 1450 fps, if your using anything lighter than 124's then your over 1500fps. Too fast for Rainiers. Actually I believe that goes for all plated bullets.

I just had this issue this past weekend. I went to small rifle primers and I think the extra velocity put me over the threshold. I never once had an issue all last yr, just started using

the Small rifle primers and now have an issue.

I went to the website and see they make an 147gr 9mm, looks like that is an option. I shot 40cal around 1300fps last yr or just a tad over. I shoot a 40cal open gun and use the 135gr. I need to get the chrono out again since I switched primers. Probably just need to back the powder down some.

Flyin40

Edited April 11, 2006 by Flyin40

[bmadsen]

Look here:

spiral pattern This is common with some plated bullets, and is not related to the speed of the bullet, as it also happens with 40 and 45.

[nm3gnr]

Hello,

I shoot Bazer Brass .40 180 fmj out of My Edge and have not seen this at two feet or longer.

Actually my Edge will group these off a sandbag into 2" at 50yds. That is why I chose to take theese to matches at different altitudes, I don't worry about chrono or accuracy.

Good Luck !

[Beethoven]

Look here:

spiral pattern This is common with some plated bullets, and is not related to the speed of the bullet, as it also happens with 40 and 45.

that exactally what it looks like.

Yea i am switching to Zero bullets for all my Major stuff. I just had some left over and needed to use them.

They were the 125gr. Rainers too so they were going really fast.

thanks

[AlamoShooter]

I used to use the Rainer in 1991 I found that the crimp must be very light... any mark on the bullet at all and the acuracy will go to heck. I was shooting them in a 40 so the speed was only about 1000

I like Zero

JF

[Flyin40]

I used to use the Rainer in 1991 I found that the crimp must be very light... any mark on the bullet at all and the acuracy will go to heck. I was shooting them in a 40 so the speed was only about 1000

I like Zero

JF

Zero doesn't make 40cal 135gr bullets....

Flyin40

[AZ38super]

I used to shoot 115's out of my 17C at 1250+ fps and never saw this. I still have a couple K sitting on the bench so I might have to load a few in my 38 super and see what happens at higher speed.

If you are cutting the plating with crimp then your setup is way off. You should never have that much crimp in an auto feed gun. The bullet should be held in place by the side wall of the case and not just by the crimp.

High power revolvers like my Super Redhawk 44 mag I had take a stronger crimp to stop the bullets from being pulled while shooting but this is not the case with bottom feeders.

The markings look like possibly lead or powder markings. I would take a good look at the barrel right away. Then shoot the same loads in another gun to see if it does the same thing out of that gun.

Just my .02 for what thats worth.

[Beethoven]

Az38super,

the barreel is almost brand new. Its and STI TruBor with the S1 comp on it. i have maybe put 5000 throught it...so i hope that is not the problem. Ill have to shoot some of it out of my buddies gun and see if that what it is. The crimp is very light BTW.

[AZ38super]

BTW,

Sounds like a nice setup, if it keeps doing that you might have to give it to me for a long while so I can run test loads through it every Tuesday or more....just kidding.

I was just tossing a few ideas, one thought was a nick or mark in the barrel.

[Beethoven]

yea that could do it. iYsure as hell hope that there is not a nick in a like new barrel. Ill check it out and shoot some of it form some one elses gun. Thanks guys

You shoot steel out at Rio on tuesdays I guess then?

[AZ38super]

BTW,

Yes, I make each Tues, all the paper and ICORE matches 99% of the time each month.

It has to be a really good reason to miss a match.

[Beethoven]

Yea I like Rio a lot but its quite the drive from here. I did shoot spring steel there though. I shoot with the cactus group on thursday nights at ben avery.

Can't shoot Rio because i dont get off shcool till 2:30 then ill have to drive there and be too frustrated/ tired to shoot decently.

Do you ever shoot out at cactus?

[AZ38super]

I have not yet been there but I really need to one of these days.

When you live 10 minutes away from Rio it kind of spoils a guy real fast.

Edited April 12, 2006 by AZ38super

[Beethoven]

yea you are probally way to spoiled to shoot with us. lol kidding of course.

I would love to live that close to Rio.

Come on out some night, its pretty laid back usually a real good group of guys.

[Harmon]

how much power pistol does it take to make 179 power factor in your gun?

it takes 7.0 with a small rifle primer(i ordered them by mistake) to duplicate that in my gun...the bullets are haulin serious ass too!

[TonyT]

I believe that's too high a velocity for the platd bullets. I would use jacketed bullets at those velocities.

[JFD]

I think the velocity is too high as well.

I've gotten great performance out of Rainier RN and HP bullets in .38 Super (MINOR), .40 (Major), and .45 auto (major) loads.

My current Limited loads are using Rainier 180 HPs and are very accurate.

[Beethoven]

how much power pistol does it take to make 179 power factor in your gun?

it takes 7.0 with a small rifle primer(i ordered them by mistake) to duplicate that in my gun...the bullets are haulin serious ass too!

I dont know why my guns needs so much powder! i use 8.2grs I hear about people only using 7 or 7.5 but mine need a full case full of it. i would love to have it run at 179 with only 7 grains. how long are you loading with the 7 grains? I really like the higher PF loads for some reason. I cant quite put my finger on it though

[WestDesRat]

Look here:

spiral pattern This is common with some plated bullets, and is not related to the speed of the bullet, as it also happens with 40 and 45.

I've seen similar patterns on targets at close range with Miwall 125gr TMJ reloads fired from an XD-9. Never had any keyholes though. For the $89/k price I paid they were "ok". My thoughts at the time was that the rifling was cutting through the relatively thin plating.

124gr West Coast plated in my G19 over 4.7gr of Universal Clays keyhole badly, at least 3 of every ten rounds, and I thought I saw a similar pattern around a few of the holes, but the range was a bit longer, say 15-20 yards. I havnt tried these from my XD yet.