The Draw

[Loves2Shoot]

In doing some surfing last night I came across a comment by Eric G from his website about the draw. "I shot first shot in about 1 second, but I am not the fastest on the first shot, and in any case a stage is not just one shot"

On courses of fire when you have to have a perfect 1st shot some times a smooth draw will give you a better time than ripping a lightning fast, beat the par time, dry fire draw. 30 degree weather definetely slows things down a bit too, but the smooth draw set up the rest of the shots. With a 4 shot string you can't waste any shots.

Fourplates

[BritinUSA]

This backs something that I've been saying for years. A lot of people spend a lot of time achieving a sub-second draw. In all the matches I've been too I've only seen two people do a sub-second draw at a major match. When I watch videos of the tops shooters they never draw blindingly fast, it is just smooth.

As Eric says, the stage is not just one shot.

[Crusher]

Smooth, looks like your shoulders rose 3-4" on presentation (rolled) and when finished you relaxed them. I bet your presentation would pick up a .10 or so without lifting/rolling your shoulders and the grip would remain just as smooth.

Video is great for the little things that cost us, I have a lot from last year and spent the winter on working out the kinks. Weather is warming up and I need to find out what else I bugger up, camera and triposd are ready just another 15-20 degress and its off to the outside ranges.

[Loves2Shoot]

Crusher, nice observation. What looks like up is actually back. What looks like I'm relaxing them is actually just bringing them back and then forward as the gun levels. I've found that if I get my shoulders back a bit when I grab the gun, it helps me bring the gun up higher, closer to my body, and then it is easier to drive it directly to the target. It is one of those things that is body type specific and not for everyone.

In a match, a have a hard time snatching the gun out fast on small targets, one of those things I need to do better. I'm just giving away time there.

My goal on this stage was to see the serrations on the front sight on every shot, and a M open shooter had already shot it clean in 2.65, so I didn't want to lose too many points.

It is amazing though how the cold affects the way the body works.

[eerw]

Good Videos..

while a sub-second draw is a good benchmark and works well to develop that mechanic..

a smooth consistent draw I have felt is more important..for the consistency and setup for the rest of the stage..

you may give up a tenth or little more of a second....but in stages..there are more places to gain and lose full seconds..

[shred]

And one thing I noticed in Panama was that Eric is very good at drawing while moving somewhere else, be that one foot or six feet. It made me make a whole new list of things to work on for my draw.

[Jake Di Vita]

That is true....however if someone is on average .2 seconds faster on the draw then his competitor.....2 seconds times 36 stages at the WS equals 7 seconds.

7 seconds depending on the hit factor of the stages could be as much as 40 - 70 match points before the first shot is even fired.

The draw is not the most important thing...however I'll take whatever points I can get, wherever I can get them.

[Loves2Shoot]

I'll take all the points I can, but sometimes backing of just a bit can have big benefits, especially when the risks out weight the rewards. In a four shot (or short VC stage) stage I'll back off .2 seconds for a perfect 1st shot.

In this particular stage .2 seconds longer on the draw is about 2 points out of 20 from a crankin' first shot. If you blow the draw, and make a extra shot up (real fast,) your lose 4-8 points minum. If you mike it, you're screwed.

You should always work to improve your skills, there are just times in the big picture where backing off a tiny bit is a good thing to do IMO.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[cz75ipsc]

however if someone is on average .2 seconds faster on the draw then his competitor.....2 seconds times 36 stages at the WS equals 7 seconds.

This isn't the first time I've heard this argument, and it has always bothered me. I believe this example is misleading. Take into account that I speak for IPSC stages, not for USPSA.

At least in IPSC, we don't actually draw the gun from the holster in condition 1 on every stage. There are a lot of table top starts, condition 2 and 3 starts, gun in box starts and other gimmicks. I think it's fair to say that, at least where I shoot, a minimum of one-third of all stages are not "gun in holster, condition 1" -starts (I have been to several matches where over half the stages were not like this).

And when in fact we DO have a stage with a "holster, cond 1" -start, it's very common to have the first place where you can shoot a target more than a few meters away. The movement doesn't of course remove the benefit provided by a fast draw, but it dramatically reduces it, as most shooters can draw the gun during the first two steps. Based on my numerous years of "big match"-experience, I'd say about a half of "hoster, cond 1" -stages have at least three steps before you can fire the first shot.

What it comes down to is that, in my experience, about one-third of all IPSC stages are such that you CAN actually take the 0,2 seconds you gained on the draw into account. The other stages are simply not holster-starts or they have more or less movement before the draw is completed, reducing or removing the edge provided by a fast draw.

Don't get me wrong, however. I'm not saying that practicing fast draws is useless. Like Jake said, you have to take points from where ever you can. My point is that people often over-emphasize the benefits of a fast draw with the (number of stages x 0,2 seconds) -rationale.

[Jake Di Vita]

L2S,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating a faster first shot with disregard for points. I look at the draw like I look at anything...the more practice yu put in, the faster and more consistent it will be. I don't consider a .8 draw in a match to be recklass or too fast simply because when I shoot, I shoot as quickly as I can while keeping them in the center.

CZ,

I was saying an average of .2 seconds faster. Now when I practice, I don't only practice hands at sides draws. I will practice draws from whatever position I can think of, including unloading and other. Will a person be .2 faster on every one? Probably not...however I can definetely think of instances where I've gained close to .4 seconds on a IPSC style draw against some pretty good competitors.

[Bigbadaboom]

I'ld say that it is important to practice getting off an accurate (A-zone, steel on the first shot or whatever) 1st shot as fast as possible. What ever it takes. IMHO practicing to gain a .75 accurate draw is very important if your up against someone doing it in .85.

[Radical Precision Designs]

This thread brings to mind the old "Meatloaf" song: "...all revved up, and no place to go..."

I take into issue E. Grauffel's approach of placing the importance in winning the entire stage, rather than just the first shot. You could have the fastest time in the first shot, then blow it with a poor follow up. There is also always the "accuracy" part of "DVC". You must be very, very fast to beat your top competitors, but also very, very accurate.

Jake's approach of getting a fast "leg-up" can indeed give you the winning edge, when everything else in the performance level matches it. But it will not guarrantee you the win if you are lacking in the other components. Maku mozo.

Not to say that Jake's "banzai" start is extreme. I like it. Only wish "I" had it!!!

[Flexmoney]

There are many skills required to shoot an IPSC/USPSA style stage or match.

A shooter might want to weigh the skills that are likely to be tested against where they are lacking. Then, the shooter can use their practice time to maximum utility.

Very few sub-skills matter...if you can't hit the Alpha...and call the shot.

It probably doesn't make too much sense to take a draw that is at 90% and make the focus of training to bring that draw up to 95%. Chances are there are skills that weigh more heavily in the match...and those skill probably need to be brought up to the 90% level.

(That being said, I shot a Steel Challenge match on Saturday...my draw needs work. 5 match draws per stage in SC changes the importance quite a bit.)

[Crusher]

.."banzai" start.

I love it, I will employ this as often as possible (mostly to un-nerve the competition) without scaraficing accurracy.

RO: "LAMR"

me: "BANZAI !"

RO and galery: "WTF?"

me: "hehehehe"

[Flexmoney]

Not to say that Jake's "banzai" start is extreme. I like it. Only wish "I" had it!!!

Just to put that into context. Jake's draw isn't really "banzai" for him. It's just his draw. It happens to be closer to the 100% level. And, he can be at the level without sacrificing other aspects of his game because he is putting in the training time all around.

That doesn't mean that you have to train for 8 hours a day to get good. It might be important to note that, once a skill level has been reached, it doesn't require as many repetitions to maintain as it did to get there.

I've always suggested to work a weakness into a strength, then work on the next weakness.

[Loves2Shoot]

Jake, I think I understood you point, I and I agree wholeheartedly with your response.

The reason for the post is I hear a lot of people with unrealistic expectations and an over emphasis on draw speed. A draw like Jake's takes lots of good practice and certain traits/abilities you are either born with or not.

Flex pretty much hit the nail on the head for what I was trying to say with the post.

I had another post about footwork that I should have proabably combined with this one. The guy in that vid can shoot well, draw fast, and move fast, he just has some issues with "wanting to be fast."

Nice posts all.