Eager Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I've sold several handguns (shipped to FFLs out of state) but I've never done an in-state, face to face sale. I've got a gun for sale now and it may go in-state this time. I'm in WA. What all do I need to do/know for an in-state FTF sale? I downloaded a very comprehensive "Bill of Sale" from one of these gunboards which looks like it would be great to use. Any other tips/advice would be great. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I'd suggest using a Bill of Sale in case there is any problem. For instance, if the gun is later stolen and used in a crime, you have documentation that you sold it. You can also include terms to protect yourself, such as the fact that the gun is sold "as-is" without any warranties. You can also add a term for the buyer to represent that he's legally allowed to possess guns. I could go on and on . . . obviously this is friendly advice and not legal advice. Check your local and state laws to make sure the sale is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I'm not aware of any laws in WA state that *require* a particular process for face-to-face transfers, so much of the question comes back to you. What do *you* want to accomplish? If you want a "paper trail", showing that you no longer own the gun, in case it ever turns up badly somewhere, then a simple bill of sale, signed by both, dated, and including some positive ID (eg, the buyer's WA-state driver's license number) is plenty good enough. It documents that you sold the gun, and also documents that you verified the buyer is of sufficient age, and is a WA-state resident (since selling to a non-resident is a whole different can of worms). Note that it *is* a crime to knowingly sell a gun to someone who you reasonably believe to be ineligible to have a gun. If you want to go a step beyond that, you can do a number of things. One would be to ask that the buyer show a WA-state concealed weapons permit. It is - at some level - a relatively good indicator that the person is not otherwise prohibited from buying or possessing a firearm. If you really want to make it a rock-solid deal, do the sale thru a gun shop. For a nominal feel (20-30 bucks), most gun shops will do the transfer, which means a full log entry and NICS check just as if it was an interstate transfer. BTW, here's a link to the ATF FAQ about private-party transfers, http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1 ...a link to the section of WA-state laws covering firearms http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41 ... and a link to the [optional] private-party transfer form available through the WA department of licensing http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.htm Please note - I'm not a lawyer, don't even know one. And, be advised that while WA-state law has a "pre-emption" clause which says that counties and cities canNOT pass gun laws that are more restrictive than the state laws, some cities (eg, Seattle) do find ways to put local hurdles in the way, so... if you really want to cover your bases, might be a good idea to call the local city-hall and ask what they believe to be "required". Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 +1 to what BGary said. And I am a lawyer. I know the federal laws, but nothing about WA laws. At a minimum, the Bill of Sale should include the date, make and model and serial number of the gun, names of buyer and seller, and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Not to be a smart a$$. Why don't you just take it to the local FFL dealer and have him log it it in his book and make the buyer fill out a 4473 form. It may cost a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Not to be a smart a$$. Why don't you just take it to the local FFL dealer and have him log it it in his book and make the buyer fill out a 4473 form. It may cost a few bucks. Everyone in Waco, TX charged a minimum of $50...when they would do something like that. I'd love to see someone do transfers for $20 here in northern VA. I don't see why FFLs are jacking up the costs of doing transfers. If they kept them a reasonable $20 or so, they'd make a decent profit for minimal work, and they could keep a smaller inventory (less inventory tax to pay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 gun shop may charge $0 if you are a good customer. really doesn't cost him anything but a little time and a phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Sounds like you'd need to find out if a gun is treated differently than a lamp in your state. If so, at what level. (I have an ATF publicatin from a few years ago that lists all the state and local laws...from a couple of years ago. But, I'm out of town. You should be able to find those laws on the internet for your state.) google search for "gun transfers in washington state" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gun+t...n+state&spell=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Not to be a smart a$$. Why don't you just take it to the local FFL dealer and have him log it it in his book and make the buyer fill out a 4473 form. It may cost a few bucks. Because I've figured out clearly that it's not required in my state. Not to be smart-a$$ but why don't you take all of your toys down to your local PD and ATF office and ask them if they see anything they'd possibly like to confiscate? Or take all your past tax returns to the IRS? Answer: Because it's none of their business and it just encourages potenital abuse of dubious authority. Edited March 16, 2006 by Eager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yup. So there's the other half of the face-to-face transfer equation. Since there is no formal requirement (as far as I know) in Washington state, you are primarily bound by what *you* feel you need to cover yourself. If you want a paper trail to prove that you sold it, you can create one. If you don't need that paper trail, for whatever reason... you don't have to create one. In fact, there may actually be reasons to *not* create a paper trail, if you are comfortable with the idea that your only answer, should the serial number track back to you someday, would be to say "I no longer have it". I actually stand on both sides of that line. I generally do an informal bill of sale, but generally contend that the *only* time that piece of paper is relevant is if I have to *prove* that I don't have the firearm. For the most part, "I no longer have it" appears to be a complete and indisputable answer to most foreseeable inquiries. Bruce (who changed insurance companies when my old homeowner's policy said they needed make, model and serial number for everything in my safe before they would cover it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 (edited) Just to reitterate, I stated that I would use a comprehensive "Bill of Sale". It looks like even this isn't required, but it will create a "paper trail of comfort" for myself, but I won't pay for a NICS check because it's unecessary, anti-freedom and seems like it would just encourage bureaucractic meddling. Edited March 16, 2006 by Eager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 so...whatya have for sale here in the great face-to-face state of Washington? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) I have this: But It looks like the FTF is moot point now 'cause a guy in Afganistan (residence in FL) just bought it last night. Maybe another day I'll do an FTF. http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topi...7&f=88&t=336291 Edited March 17, 2006 by Eager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Eager, when doing FTF transfers, make sure you have proof to whom you transfered the gun. ID's can be faked. The NICS system probably won't be wrong. Not everyone will tell you they have an active OP, which more or less prevents them from purchasing a gun. Also beware of the "Straw" purchaser. This is a person that buys a gun for someone that cannot legally purchase it themself. This happens more than you might think. Bottom line: Know who you are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eager Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 For those of you who have asked for the neat "Bill of Sale" pdf file that I downloaded from another gunboard, here it is: bill_of_sale.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 yeah Thanks ........... Awesome pic Matt Now put my new gun back where you found it ! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Am I the only one here who has bought a gun in a parking lot for cash without even knowing the seller's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Ummm.... I'll only answer by saying that there is some attraction to having a few things that are "off the books" theoretically speaking, of course. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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