EricW Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I've noticed in both pistol and shooting LR rifle that shoulder tension has a dramatic negative effect on just about everything I do. It affects my NPA, my index, makes me blow reloads, AND it makes my rifle shooting extremely erratic. As soon as I relax my shoulders, everything locks right back into place. And I find that I consciously have to pay attention to whether my shoulders have tension built into them. There's world of difference between thinking "relax" and actually being in the state of "relaxed." Proof's in the pudding. Once I relaxed, I shot REALLY well today. Best I've ever done. Wish I could let it go during matches. I'd probably jump a classification automatically if i could just check the tension in the parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I've always been told by better shooters not to move my shoulders on the draw. Now that I think of it, maybe what they were trying to tell me was to relax, since the tension makes me hunch up the shoulders. And yes, my index and time to the first, accurate shot are both a lot better with the shoulders staying level (relaxed). Seems to be true for my reload as well. Kevin C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 In theory and technique - your shoulders should not move during the draw. Whether from the surrender position or "hands at sides" - imagine the drawing motion originates from your elbow. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 That only works if you're built like TGO. I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 ????? I am definetely not built anything like TGO...and it works great for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 In practice, it can be hard to not move your shoulders at all - watching videos of The Burner on Ray Solomon's site, even he moves them a little bit on the draw. You can get them immobile (or nearly so) if you work at it, and you don't have to be built a certain way to make it happen, as Jake says. You will be faster and more consistent for having done so Go look at video of all the top dogs - I suspect you won't find many who do anything hinky with their shoulders on the draw. You may detect a small amount of movement, but that's it - no gross movement in the shoulders (which, BTW, affects your head position, etc - their heads don't move at all...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 This might be a matter of semantics as to what is the shoulder, is it the actual joint or the area between the neck and the arm? If I stand in front of a mirror and draw from hands at side, my shoulder joint moves up 4" to form a straight line between my neck and shoulder with arms at full extension. For a surrender draw my shoulders start level, drop for the draw & level again on full arm extension. The only thing that doesn't move is the head & eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Jake, it was a joke. I and several others I know have always felt Robbie has a long torso and short arms for his size. Unfair natural advantage... Me, I've got gorilla-length arms and a short torso...adds a tenth or a sec. or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 On Tuesday over lunch with Robbie I quote "Tension is good and has its place in different situations, and I shoot under tension..." This was evidenced by my weak grip tension, when he readjusted it by squeezing my hand to pieces and his shoulders and arms were tightened up. Seemed to work wonders for me when I shot a 3.11 plate rack (whatever that means). I look at tension as being a separate entity (in the physical) whereas relaxation is of the mind......relaxed is focused and aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Yo' Anders! Glad you're back. Hope it was great. Wish I was there. Shoulder tension might work for Robbie, but it ain't a workin' for me. After 500+ rounds yesterday, there's just nobody, not even Robbie himself that's going to tell me that tension in my shoulders will help me. I know that a boatload of hubris from some jerk with a "C" card, but those targets didn't lie yesterday...and that shiny thing in low earth orbit...that ain't no sputnik, that's my brand-new STI mag that I spent 45 minutes tuning. I'm thinking of offering payload launch services. I'll drink two pots of coffee, race to a match at 90mph, and have people hand me magazine-shaped satellites. I don't need no stinkin' rockets... Seriously, I think there's different kinds of tension. The shoulder variety is killing me. It prevents me from performing fine motor coordination properly. There's other kinds of tension, like man on man shootoffs, that I absolutely feed on. I always sign up for Open and Limited for shootoffs. Going after an Open gunner with a Limited gun builds a good kind of tension into my shooting. [/E-Card Holding Blowhard Mode] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I've mentioned this in the past...so bear with me.. I remember shooting the plates at my first local NRA/Bianchi match. I never realized that we shoot...basically...a box of ammo all at once. About 3/4 of the way through, I was feeling noticing how much tension was in my shooting stance, grip, ect. That thought reminded me then, as it always does now, of our host and his record run on the plate racks at Bianchi one year. There is now way I could have shoot 500 plates that day. I had too much tension. I still don't have a relaxed stance like the Ghost Dog, but my tension is much different today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hey Eric! What was funny was watching his feet when he shot plate racks...he would start flat footed and end up on his toes. He basically fixed my trigger control and my "tension"...suffice to say I need to start lifting weights, as I am pretty sore in the biceps and shoulders. He still thought I needed to strengthen my grip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) I can't even *contemplate* going 50 straight on the plates. I think that may be plan for tomorrow. Stand in front of the plate rack at 25 and hit one every time I pull the trigger. =========================================== Oh Anders, that is just f'ing hysterical. You've got your shirt tucked in AND your stogie is on the ground!!! BUWAHAHAHAHA!! Edited March 23, 2006 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Well after someone forgeing a formal complaint in our club about my belt not being through the loops I decided that was part of becoming a "serious" shooter, coupled with the 2-3 hours of dry fire every night. The stogie was this guys from New Jersey who asked Rob if it bugged him to which he replied "As long as I don't smell it, I wont have to kill you". You know me I would never smoke a dominican... Oh, I beat TGO on that plate run, so he kept calling me out and kicking my ass every time after. Great fun and an even nicer guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Shoulder tension shows up on me - but usually other things are tense, too. When I feel like I'm shooting "shoulders in ears", it's time to back off and loosen up, etc... Couple of things I've been doing that seem to help me get there - stand up straight, shoulders back, etc. Deep breath in, slowly back out, and relax shoulders at the same time. Then, let that belly just flop out and look all fat and beer gut. It's hard to be tense all over with your belly pooched out. Try it heh heh... That gets the feeling right, anyway. It really enhances the ape-like look of "IPSC Monkey", too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 OK, I'll post something serious. Think "elbows down" at presentation, not "elbows out." Tension gone... it kind of forces your shoulders to relax. Also reduces that IPSC monkey look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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