Sizing 9x19 & 38super

[eric nielsen]

Just thought I'd pass along 2 stories related to sizing die selection. Covers 2 different calibers, each using the "wrong" sizing die.

For years now a buddy and I have both been sizing 38super brass with a 9x19 die. He uses a 1050 press where a 2nd sizing station also puts them thru a 38super die. Myself, I size all my fired brass [with just the 9mm die] and then tumble them a 2nd time to clean the primer pockets out. Another step, I know, but it makes loading the ammo easy.

The benefit is that the Super brass gets tapered near the mouth & provides more bullet pull AND the brass gets sized not-so-tight at the base which means more loadings before getting the belted-magnum effect. Never had a round fail to chamber completely.

BUT:

Last few weeks I've been picking up my own Winchester super brass with 2 firings on them and finding partial cracks [not up to the mouth] that start around where the base of the bullet was. Shooting 115gr Zero JHPs. Maybe 1 out of every 50 cases that way. I may change to the Super sizing die if this continues. Never an issue with once-fired brass, rarely happened with my Caspian HiCap super using Remington +P nickel brass with up to 5 firings on them.

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Related story: Another buddy of mine buys a 9Major S_I gun from a well-known gunsmith. Gunsmith recommends a bullet & powder combination AND later on recommends sizing the cases with a 38super die. Friend asks me what I think of this. I say whoa, be careful, the 9x19 case was designed to be tapered, check your bullet pull, you should not need any crimp to hold the bullet from pushing further into the case.

He checks this, finds no rounds crushing shorter in length, shoots his 9Maj gun that way. Later he has a bullet lodge in his barrel while shooting. THE PRIMER & POWDER BEHIND IT HAD NOT GONE OFF YET, it was just chambered from the mag & waiting to be shot. The bullet had pulled itself out of the 38super-sized case by momentum of the forward-cycling slide. It wandered onto the rifling of the barrel where it stuck. Lucky to not blow up the gun.

We looked at some of his loaded ammo later and couldn't tell where the bases of his bullets were at, under the case. The case walls were that straight. Too straight.

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Something to think about...

[DougCarden]

Eric, big thanks for the heads up!!

[PaulW]

So confused. Why would you use a 9mm die in a super? I read what you wrote but still does not make any sense. Super is straight walled and 9mm is tapered. Same goes for the other story. Head scratchers??

[eric nielsen]

I know - dumb. Me & the other guy years ago were reloading super cases like 12-14 times and finding the back-ends getting so bulged that they wouldn't chamber. Somewhere the accepted wisdom said that you could use a 9 die prior to the Super die & not get that bulge.

With Winchester brass it's not 100% smart to do, i'm finding.

Where the $3800 open-gun builder [not Dan, obviously] got the notion to size 9 Major with a super die, I have no idea.

[PaulW]

In super I think it's well worth the $22 and buy the EGW undersize die. Great tool and save a bunch of time and headaches.

[roby]

In super I think it's well worth the $22 and buy the EGW undersize die. Great tool and save a bunch of time and headaches.

or just get the lee factory crimp die, which is exactly the same thing at half the cost!

[Matt Cheely]

In super I think it's well worth the $22 and buy the EGW undersize die. Great tool and save a bunch of time and headaches.

or just get the lee factory crimp die, which is exactly the same thing at half the cost!

Or you can get both!

[TonyT]

The EGW undersize die is actually a Lee undersize die. f you call Lee you can have them furnish you the same die.

[shred]

The EGW undersize die is actually a Lee undersize die. f you call Lee you can have them furnish you the same die.

George of EGW on their U die

[coldchar]

may I make a compromise suggestion. Not my idea but it works very well. Use the 9mm sizing die at station 1 of a 4 station set up of for a 38 super. The sizing die should be set to only size the first 1/4 inch or so of the 38 super brass where the bullet seats. This gives a very tight crimp for the bullet whether you are using a .355 or .357. The sizing die in station 1 also deprimes. The dillon 9mm die will not work it cannot be set to size high and deprime. I use the RCBS 9mm.

In station 2 goes the powder feed and flaring die (yes I use a Dillon 550 and the Dillon die here).

Station 3 is the wonderful bullet seating die by Redding. If you use more than one bullet type (I use several) one little turn will do you. I collect 38 supers and shoot them all.

Station 4 is the equally great Lee full length carbide sizing die ( grind down the mouth to get it as low on the brass as possible).

It will not stop the wide base but is a wonderful set up- thank you Chris H. for the guidance.