X-10 lack of support

[Tunachaser]

I had to dismantle the priming system on my Frankfort X-10 press to remove a mangled primer.  The tiny ball which helps index the gear which picks up the primers from the tube and rotates under the brass slipped away from me and last seen bouncing across the garage.  OH SH#T!  After unsuccessfully  looking for it I emailed Frankfort expecting them to send me a new one. BUT NO!  First they asked for pictures....of a lost part, then when I offered to pay for the ball I got this response...

 

"We do not have these parts available for purchase. 

Thank you,
Easton
DTC Customer Support"

 

Hornady sent me a new e-clip for the priming system in my LnL hours after I sent them an e-mail asking for a new one.

 

Faced with an unusable press I spent a great deal of time searching the garage floor and four days latter I found it  That is not customer service in my option.

 

And I can hear the remarks about being able to find my etc,etc....

Edited September 8, 2023 by Tunachaser

[Zachjet]

I have no comment or experience towards the FX-10. But Hornaday couldn’t be more helpful when I broke my press they sent me out a part ASAP. No questions asked.

I’ve been wanting to upgrade to the FX 10. But kind of waiting to see how it turns out before I pull the trigger.

[Farmer]

Dropped a trigger spring for my Benelli on the farm shop floor once. Knew better but did it anyway. Paid the price, spring was $2 shipping $5. Will probably find it and other items whenever shop gets cleaned. That really sucks that they treated you like that. Sounds like CS used to work for the government. 

[Miranda]

that is a hard tale to hear unfold.

to be clear, I believe you and think it a poor response.

 

I pretty much decided C.S.  was just stating they will not sell parts.

I also came to the conclusion that the take a photo of the missing part

was a way to avoid stating we have no parts.

 

the good news is that they are sold out of presses.

(none to use as parts machines.)

 

mostly I am wondering if they will stay in the press biz.

that response will make it harder to sell more.

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

[Tunachaser]

Hopefully they will change their attitude and be more like Hornady.  I have never had Hornady refuse to send me a part for free, but I gladly would have paid $2 for the part and shipping.  At 74 crawling around the floor was not fun, just glad I was able to find it or my new press would have been useless. 

 

[Farmer]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:23 AM, Tunachaser said:

Hopefully they will change their attitude and be more like Hornady.  I have never had Hornady refuse to send me a part for free, but I gladly would have paid $2 for the part and shipping.  At 74 crawling around the floor was not fun, just glad I was able to find it or my new press would have been useless. 

 

Glad you found it! Did you measure the ball so you could maybe get an extra one at a hardware store, Granger, Small Parts Corp? I always saved all extra check balls from carburetor rebuilds and can’t remember how many times they bailed my ass out. If you ever need a tiny one, a disassembled grease zerk can sometimes provide a solution. 

[Miranda]

"a disassembled grease zerk"

 

ok...

how does one do that?

 

I know you can get a ball out of a ball point pen by careful squeezing.

zerks seem a bit too big for that method.

 

miranda

[Farmer]

1 hour ago, Miranda said:

"a disassembled grease zerk"

 

ok...

how does one do that?

 

I know you can get a ball out of a ball point pen by careful squeezing.

zerks seem a bit too big for that method.

 

miranda

Most are crimped on the back side and the crimp is easily ground off. Yank the spring and you got it. Some have a star washer pressed in that can be removed too. I guess one has to inspect them before you purchase one. 

[Tunachaser]

On 9/11/2023 at 12:23 PM, Farmer said:

Did you measure the ball

Of course not...LOL...if I was that smart I wouldn't have lost it in the first place.

 

I thought about that AFTER I reassembled everything.

[Farmer]

3 hours ago, Tunachaser said:

Of course not...LOL...if I was that smart I wouldn't have lost it in the first place.

 

I thought about that AFTER I reassembled everything.

Yep! Done the Same here! LOL so happy to find it and git-er-back together! 

[ReconNav]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:02 PM, Zachjet said:

. . . Hornaday couldn’t be more helpful when I broke my press they sent me out a part ASAP. No questions asked.

 

 

Same here. Twice I've called customer service to trouble shoot problems with my Lock-n-Load AP, and the tech said it was possible, but unlikely parts were the problem.  Because I'm at work during CS hours, they gave me steps to try for fixing the problems, to do when I was back at home. Both times they sent replacement parts, so that just in case the other steps didn't work, I'd have the parts.

[Demorunner]

Ive had a hell of a time with FA CS about their poor QC.

After setting the up the press about 50 rounds in I had a jam on the down stroke. Cleared the jam by removing the shell plate nut, about 50 rounds later the same thing happened. Reached out to Frankford and after several email and calls was asked to speak to an engineer. The engineer told me to shim the shell plate advance mechanism because some bases were machined incorrectly, shimmed the mech and the machine ran much smoother until about 50 rounds in the machine completely locked up on the down stroke. Called and emailed Frankford again, spoke to the engineer who said he didn’t know and would think about it. I took the whole machine apart (I’m an R&D engineer for a car company) to inspect and determine the cause. I found a piece of a tooth on the primer assembly was missing, no impact or crush damage just looks like an inclusion in the pot metal, this piece then got pressed into the plastic gear on the shell plate and when those two teeth would line up the machine would bind. I was also having an issue with inconsistent primer seating, I found the bar that the swage and primer rods are attached to would rock when swaging and depending on how tight the primer pocket being swaged was would determine the seating depth of the primer in the next station. Spoke to the engineer and sent several email, was told the parts are being shipped out. Waited a few weeks and a box showed up with incorrect parts in it. I emailed back and was told the parts are back ordered. I demanded a new machine at this point as I was told the base is machined incorrectly and the parts are not available and I was told they would not send me a new unit because the engineer did not say the base was machined incorrectly. Well he did twice on the phone.

Working in R&D I work with many influencers, youtubers, and journalists on PR events and projects, (it’s crazy you have to mention going public with your issues to get a response) after Frankford ghosted me for awhile i mentioned one of my YouTube contacts wanted to do a review on the unit and finish by shooting the press to see what calibers it would stop. They got back to me right after saying they me to ship my press to them and they will inspect, I demanded a new press be sent first and was told they couldn’t do it because the press is too valuable for them but I guess it’s not too valuable for their customers to ship it back and hope they will turn a new unit around in a timely manor.

They have already lost me as a customer but they better fix these issues before they dont have many customers left.

[Tunachaser]

Sorry for your problems, they sound MUCH worse than mine.

 

The lack of a comprehensive parts diagram is crippling IMHO.  With my Hornady LnL I can give a description from the parts diagram AND the part number, then they know exactly what I need.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Tunachaser

[Farmer]

 Good grief, is it getting so bad that companies can’t even supply a parts diagram anymore? They have no problem taking your money! Even some of the ag stuff the parts diagrams look like a 4 year old drew them up with crayons. Sorry for the rant. 

[Miranda]

the death of drafting is what I see as the most direct reason for the lack of exploded diagrams.

In a few more decades I expect better software will generate those.

 

The folks at FA are dealing with what I think is normal Chinese QC problems.

The most accurate description is "none." 

 

From what I can tell, the press looks like a good design.

How FA attends to the QC issues for the users is going

to be the make or break point for future sales.

At this rate I may have one a lot sooner than I expected initially.

 

As this is a new product, perhaps getting a 'problem press' back from a customer

is an excellent way to evaluate both press design and manufacturing issues

... an ongoing process of improving the product?

 

It also can be a source for parts for the very few presses that fail.

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nolan]

Almost all of the modern CAD programs have an auto/smart exploded view function, usually in less than 3 mouse clicks and with smart  explode lines sketch in less than 6 clicks.

 

Failure to have exploded views is generally the marketer not requiring one from the third party engineering firm doing the design work.

 

Nolan

[Miranda]

Hi Nolan,

A few years I was at a Cabin Fever show and looking

at a booth selling a CAD/CAM package...

one of the features was an exploded diagram rendering facility.

 

I did note that some one was going to need to compile the drawings

to get  it to explode? ( the software had layers and file orientation annotations)

mostly I was thinking that some one would need to order it done

even if it were easier than eating pie.

 

Thus I still think it will be a long time before it becomes common.

 

I once thought it was 'normal'  as I had a mop that came with one.