Which Gun/caliber

[jpfishmaster]

Great site. I've been watching and reading for months and am interested in comeptiton shooting. I presently shoot a Beretta 92FS and Glock 17 but want a 1911 to get serious with. I've looked at the Para's, SA, and Kimbers. That includes the gun group. As for calibers, well, that's another dilema. It seems that the .45 and the .40 are offered widely, yet in most of what I've read the 9mm and 38 super are also strong contenders. I don't know yet what I want to shoot as far as divisions, etc goes but I want to make the right purchase initially with something I can grow with. I liked the features of the newly offered Para SX1640J of Todd Jarrett's, yet the LDA .45 Limited also had a nice feel. What of the 38 super ? Seems alot of pro's who compete for the ultimate in speed are shooting it. I saw the Shoot Out at Blackwater video clip Featuring Todd Jarrett on their .45 shootout, but was that really a .45 he was shooting that completely ripped with little recoil? IDPA, ISPC ?, Limited, Open, major, minor, class A-D, it really all gets quite confusing. Not to mention which way to take a leak in a prevailing wind. Aaarrrgggghhhh!

Guns preseltly considering: Para SX1640 J, Para LDA .45 Limited, Kimber Team Match II 38 super, SA .45 (GOLD MATCH ?)

Or should I also be looking at a few 9mm in the 1911 style. I've read it all and the more I look the more I am unsure. I guess what I'm getting at is for somebody to tell me the what for and what to buy. The new edition Todd Jarrett's have a few added features for the avid shooter, but which one would be the best choice. Kimber also has some nice features in their pro shop guns. My budget is about $1200.00 but yet I don't know which way to turn. Yeah, I know, this subject is like beating a dead horse but we all have been there. Thanks to all.

[D.Hayden]

Start with with one of the pistols you have. Most people would probably take the Glock 17, but the Beretta is fine too, whatever you're more comfortable with.

With either, start in Production Division, it'll cost you the least to get started (belt, holster, mag pouches), and those pistols are perfect for it.

Then after shooting for a while, you'll see what you like.

Buy the equipment AFTER you've tried it for a while, you'll be much happier, and have saved a ton of money.

[ima45dv8]

Dave's right. Grab what ya got and get thee to a match.

It's like a big candy store, and you will find most people very helpful when you mention you're looking to buy a blaster. You'll probably get offers to shoot folks guns, and if you see something you're interested in, ask. We love to show off our stuff.

Once you've had a chance to fire different guns with different features you can start to make a good decision about what you really want.

Where are you located?

...Mark

Welcome to the Forums!

[Clay1]

Before I read the other two answers, I was going to the same place. Grab that G17 and play in IDPA SSP and USPSA Production. While there you will learn the game, spend less on ammo (9 is cheap to shoot) and develop your skill set. While learning you have lots of time to look at different divisions and different guns. Have fun!

Rick

[Wideload]

You cannot have too many guns... however, there is nothing wrong with either of the guns you already own. As recommended by the other posters, come out and shoot what you already own. After you shoot a few matches you will have a much better idea of what and how much you really need.

[Merlin Orr]

Read above answers many times. Go to at least 4 or 5 matches in both USPSA and IDPA. Look at what others are shooting. TRY to decide what class and which sport you like best. Then make an informed purchase based on real facts you have personally learned. OR, just buy two of everything like I did - shoot all of them depending on the day - and end up with a huge investment in firearms you shoot semi competently - again - as I do.

G17 is a great gun to start with. Read Clay1's post again.

[jpfishmaster]

Thanks for the input guys, it all makes sense. I am a much better shooter with the Beretta 92FS than my G22 (hits way low every time). I would still appreciate some input on other calibers, pro vs con, etc. Thanks a mill.

[38superman]

It sounds like you've made up your mind to buy a new gun, so consider this:

I would not buy a single stack of any kind unless you plan to shoot only in the new provisional SS division.

Otherwise you will shoot it in Lim 10 for a while and set it aside.

I guarantee you will get tired of reloading all the time while guys with 20+ rounds in their mags run the stages in half your time.

Sooner or later you will come to the conclusion that your hardware is holding you back.

A good double stack 40 such as the P40.16 para will get you into major power factor and would let you shoot in limited 10 or limited.

If your budget is $1200 I would skip the Para (No disrespect to Para, I own two of them) however, even their premium models are mass produced guns.

I have a P14.45 ltd which I am setting up for lim10 competition.

I have spent a ton of money on parts and gunsmithing and it still has a ways to go before I would consider it race ready.

Sell the G17 that always shoots low and invest the extra money in an STI or SVI.

An STI Edge might be a good place for you to start without breaking the bank.

If you stay in this game you will end up there anyway.

You may as well skip the "1911 in the closet gathering dust syndrome".

Remember, IPSC is very demanding on equipment.

I put more rounds down range in a month than a typical gun owner shoots in a lifetime.

Quality counts.

Tls

Edited December 5, 2005 by tlshores

[JerryDGeek]

Everybody who's talking urges you to 'shoot what you've got""

Sounds like good advice to me.

You'll be buying a new gun eventually, but your decision will be made after you've developed some basic skills, and have learned what does and does not work for you. Listen to what other people say, but make your decisions based on your own hard-won knowledge and the things you've learned from people you trust. You don't know anybody here; you can't trust us, because we all have our own agenda and our own favorite gun . . . which we've chosen because we took the time to learn what works for US, or because we made a lot of bad choices before we made the right choices (usually, the latter.)

Get a good quality gun that you can afford to shoot a lot. If you don't already reload, you will. 99% of us can't afford to compete without building our own ammunition, and we've learned that knowing how your ammunition works, and how your chosen gun works, not only enhances the experience but makes us better competitors. How? When you go to a match, something's going to go wrong with your ammunition, your gun, or your equipment. Knowing what problems are mostly likely caused by which shooting element helps you to recover quickly. As most of us can tell you, the shooter who screws up least will probably win.

It doesn't matter what gun you shoot, as long as you can sight it in, make it work reliably, and fix it when it tanks. The first few years are typically spent learning the game anyway, unless you have a dedicated, knowledgable coach. Juniors have the edge here, as their parents is usually their sponsor and is able and willing to spend an exorbitant amount of time with training, equipment maintenance, and ammunition manufacture. If you are a junior, chances are you have a significant edge; for us old folks, we have to learn it all on our own, the hard way. Save your money for the things you will discover are MUST HAVE items, such as ammunition components, range time, and coffe & donuts to schmooze with the old-timers so you can learn the easy way the lessons they learned the hard way.

Leave your ego at home.

Chances are you won't be winning any matches this year, and probably not next year, either. When someone gives you advice, consider it carefully before you reject it.

Somebody is going to tell you something that directly contradicts what somebody else just told you. You have to choose which person to listen to, and also understand why the contradictory advice was offered. You thing you have time to break in a new gun while all this BS is being tossed at you? You don't. The only thing you can rely on is your gun, and your own developing skills. Spend more time working on these things, and less time trying to figure out what your next gun should be. When you need a new gun, you'll know it; and you'll know what gun it should be, too.

This advice is free, and should be accepted for what you paid for it, which is exactly nothing.

Some people thrive on new guns, but usually these are people who discover that they have a natural talent for pistol shooting and they don't have to learn everything the hard way. They can afford to break the rules.

The rest of us can't. We have to learn the basics, we have to build our own knowledge base before we can make intelligent decisions.

You may discover that you not only can afford, but can shoot exceptionally well with, a brand new Race Gun from STI or SV. Go for it. If you're not sure, you're probably not going to be very well served by buying the hottest, niftiest weaponry. Remember, you'll be competing against people who have the same gear, so if you're not absolutely certain that this is the best and only equipment for you, you may be disappointed in your place-of-finish.

The very best shooters in IPSC today are using fairly basic guns. They just know how to shoot them well, and it's a skill you can learn, too.

You can either learn these skills on a $3000 race gun, or on a $1000 Production, L-10 or Limited gun (and one gun can be used in any two of these three divisions.)

As you get to know folks, I'm sure you'll discover that they've got a gun sitting around that they'll be happy to let you use long enough to learn what the pro's and con's are of each model.

Don't spend your money on a new gun. It's exciting, but it's not necessarily productive.

[38superman]

jpfishmaster,

Just want to follow up on my previous post.

I don't want to give you the impression that I advocate expensive high tech race guns for beginners.

You asked (twice) for specific information and recommendations so that is what I gave you based on my own learning curve.

However, I agree with everyone that has told you to get some local matches under your belt before you go out and start buying new guns.

Take your Beretta to the local club and have some fun.

You will figure out what you want and need soon enough.

Tls

Edited December 6, 2005 by tlshores

[BR]

There are really two issues here: (a) you want to get a new gun, and ( you are interested in competing. You really don't need a new gun to compete, and you don't need to compete as an excuse for a new gun. It sounds like you want a 1911, and I sure don't blame you, as everyone should have one. The issue of what 1911-based gun, and caliber, to get is a whole 'nother topic. Single stack vs. wide body, .40 vs. .45, etc... But, I think as you research this issue more, it comes down to what you want to do with the gun. In a 1911-based gun, for carry get a single stack .45; for competition get a wide-body .40.

Regarding your interest in competition, you already have two great guns to start with. Do you reload? If not, and you are truly interested in competing, then the only way to go is 9mm. Also, for new competitors I always recommend 9mm . Less expensive, little recoil/movement, easy to find, etc... and just as fun. You simply get more bang for your buck with 9mm than any other caliber. Also, if you compete with a 1911-based gun [or any single action], you will end up in Limited, L10 or Open.

I do think beginning in production division has ALL benefits, compared to starting out in Limited or Open. There is a lot to learn. First, with the 10 round mag. limit, you are forced to (a) learn to reload and ( game the COF with reloads in mind. Second, it is much less expensive, equipment-wise, than the other divisions. Third, stock production guns do not usually take much tuning to make them run with 100% reliability, which I cannot say for any 1911-based gun. Fourth, you will not learn anything more shooting a single-action pistol that you will learn shooting production. In fact, you will probaby learn more with a gun that always works and doesn't distract you with recoil.

Pick a pistol to use, and learn the sport. Once you learn the sport, figure where you want to go from there, whether it be staying in production or buying your dream .40 wide-body and whupping-up in limited. In the past I would say that production was less competitive than the other divisions, but that is quickly changing. This past year, I have noticed a substantial number of former limited and L10 shooters competing in production, including several who shoot M or GM in limited. Why, I don't know, but it is cool to compete against some of the limited gurus when they don't have the advantage of 20+ rnd. mags and major PF.

Get a 9mm production gun. You beretta is a great place to start, and there are many top shooters who shoot the same. Personally, I suggest a glock 17 or 34 to start with. It is inexpensive, easy to learn, easy to use, easy to work on, has plenty of aftermarket parts options, consistent trigger, can be found anywhere, is super reliable, and darn accurate.

But, my best advice is to (a) schedule your USPSA safety class immediately, ( buy a bunch of 9mm ammo with all the money you saved not buying a new pistol, © get some instruction, and then (d) perfect practice makes perfect.

Cheers,

-brian reynolds

[Clay1]

When you do figure out that Glock trigger, you will probably have better trigger control with the Beretta as well. Trigger finger isolated from the rest of the fingers in the grip. Pull or press it straight back without rubbing on the trigger guard or touching any other part of the gun frame.

Glock triggers do seem to have a learning curve but, there success is undeniable since they are the number one selected production gun by a huge margin. Enjoy both of the guns that you have. I would shoot the 9mm just for the cost of ammo since my ammo cost was more this year than buying two new Glock 34s.

Have fun with the new game. My vote would be for investing in Matt Burkett's DVDs 1-4 and shooting locally. Again, enjoy.

Rick

[jpfishmaster]

Thanks to all for the input. All good stuff here. I'll continue my quest of lnowledge at the local ranges here as well.