ICORE class vs. USPSA class ?

[Fishbreath]

22 minutes ago, testosterone said:

I've only ever seen 2 people, mike and jerry, do it with live ammo on video.

 

I've done a 1.61, at least. Very easy target, however, and I don't think I've gone below 1.8 in a match. If it's a moving reload, I feel good if it's about 2.0

 

I've dry fired down to about 1.4 if I'm being even remotely honest with the sights, and high 1.2s if I'm not (pure point shooting, firing the preceding shot on the way back toward me and the following shot on the way out).

[ysrracer]

My reloads are 3, 3.5 seconds, on a good day

[testosterone]

20 hours ago, ysrracer said:

My reloads are 3, 3.5 seconds, on a good day

go faster sir.   i saw you posted a video awhile back and mike and alec told you what's wrong.   the other thing I noticed you doing was basically serial operation visually, you are watching the empty come out and fall before you are looking for the fresh one. don't do that, look for the new one immediately trusting that that empty part of things is happening,  and then be looking for an open cylinder to get them into...this will get you - 1 sec no problem.

[ysrracer]

I don't think that was me. I'm usually taking the videos, not in them. But thanks

 

 

.

Edited June 15, 2022 by ysrracer

[pskys2]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:27 AM, testosterone said:

I've never won anything big, so take it for what it is, but you can only shoot your own match and that's it.  You can try and shoot someone else's match and if you are hyper good maybe it can work, I wouldn't know because i'm not good.

I've talk to JM a bunch over the years and at one point he said you can only let it happen, you can't make it happen, you just shoot the stage in the time it takes, it will feel slow, but that will be your best performance, if you try to do something outside your realm, it'll go bad.   I guess this means practicing to the point that doing everything as fast as possible does not feel rushed or like you are forcing it to happen.

 

I guess anyways, still trying to figure it out, i experience something like what he is saying for about 30% of a match, and the rest is more like making it happen based on accuracy and errors...

 

I guarantee that the top dogs shoot their own game.

Yep what JM is saying is Match Performance is best when it's performed sub-consciously.

The time to "push the envelope" is in practice, and even then one must settle down and "do it right" at times in practice too.

 

A very wise saying I've heard is:  The Master trains until they get it right, the Grand Master trains until they can't get it wrong.

[testosterone]

1 hour ago, ysrracer said:

I don't think that was me. I'm usually taking the videos, not in them. But thanks

 

 

.

apologies

[MWP]

1.6 reload in a match is quick.
 

To make that happen not only does a person need to be capable of going significantly faster than that in practice, but the right conditions and mindset need to be in place in a match too. 1.6 isn’t happening on a 15 yard icore target A-A in a match, every time. 
 

I remember one a few years ago from nationals. Last stage or there about, I think an 8 round classifier stage that was 3 hard cover papers at 10,15 and 20, reload and 2 mini poppers at 12ish. I sent the reload pretty hard, came up and shot a fairly target focused shot on the minis. 1.71. 
 

Rob did a standing load on a 5 yard paper that when he closed the gun he basically hip shot to finish a stage, claimed it was his fastest match reload ever- just based on feel. We checked it to find a 2.21. Fast reloads help, but Rob won 2 nationals with what most would consider a slow revolver reload. 

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, MWP said:

1.6 reload in a match is quick.
 

To make that happen not only does a person need to be capable of going significantly faster than that in practice, but the right conditions and mindset need to be in place in a match too. 1.6 isn’t happening on a 15 yard icore target A-A in a match, every time. 
 

I remember one a few years ago from nationals. Last stage or there about, I think an 8 round classifier stage that was 3 hard cover papers at 10,15 and 20, reload and 2 mini poppers at 12ish. I sent the reload pretty hard, came up and shot a fairly target focused shot on the minis. 1.71. 
 

Rob did a standing load on a 5 yard paper that when he closed the gun he basically hip shot to finish a stage, claimed it was his fastest match reload ever- just based on feel. We checked it to find a 2.21. Fast reloads help, but Rob won 2 nationals with what most would consider a slow revolver reload. 

TGO never looks fast, but he's so effecient and accurate that he ranks at the top of whatever game he's in.  But JM never really looked hyper fast, but he shot 10 yard partial targets as fast as he did 10 yard open targets.  His confidence in his accuracy freed him to be fast.

[MWP]

1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

TGO never looks fast, but he's so effecient and accurate that he ranks at the top of whatever game he's in.  But JM never really looked hyper fast, but he shot 10 yard partial targets as fast as he did 10 yard open targets.  His confidence in his accuracy freed him to be fast.

Exactly. Sean and I talked about this a little bit last night. There’s a lot more to winning than being fast with the gun, although that’s part of it. 

[Alaskan454]

I stumbled across this thread and found it interesting.  As the new ICORE Stats person I can confirm that ICORE peak times are based upon the best recorded score.  They get updated periodically and the peak times are reviewed to verify validity.  

 

As for USPSA, I've shot 120+% scores that I don't feel were even my best effort.  That's an obvious flaw.  They shouldn't be that far off.  I've reported some as being suspiciously low HHF in the past and don't know if they ever adjusted them.  

 

I made GM in USPSA way before I could have done it in ICORE.  My best guess is that USPSA is about one classification level easier to achieve based upon classifier scores.  

 

Both sports, the best test is to shoot Nationals and IRC and see how you stack up.  That's your best data.

[testosterone]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:01 PM, Alaskan454 said:

 

As for USPSA, I've shot 120+% scores that I don't feel were even my best effort.  That's an obvious flaw.  They shouldn't be that far off.  I've reported some as being suspiciously low HHF in the past and don't know if they ever adjusted them.  

 

 

USPSA classifiers were generally pretty whacked, but the 8 shot ones were still to this day not updated I think?   I stopped paying attention a long time ago.     It probably would have made sense to make all the 8 shot classifier 100's in revolver equal, or in the vicinity of at least, to the production 100's.  

 

There were also a few uspsa ones that were very very doable without doing anything particularly "GM'ish" to make it like you are mentioning. 

 

Prior to the new icore classifiers introduced in recent years, there were 4-5 icore classifiers that were not metahuman level performance you could make 95% on.   I think there are a few more now, particularly one that were introduced in the classifier match pre irc in frostproof.  I know firsthand because these are the ones that made me an M which I am not.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by testosterone

[ysrracer]

Yeah, crack is whack

 

[testosterone]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:01 PM, Alaskan454 said:

As the new ICORE Stats person I can confirm that ICORE peak times are based upon the best recorded score.  They get updated periodically and the peak times are reviewed to verify validity.  

For the first time in a long time, like 6 years, I am actually doing some shooting prior to irc and not just showing up, assessing trying to find level again and feel comfortable with the gun, new goals etc...One thing I decided was to try and score a 100% on the icore elprez.  I calc'd the 100% based on a score and time I found for a well known shooter, to be 13.43, so its 2 runs at 6.7, icore el prez is @ 12 yards, no turn.

 

Dry firing this was all very doable, well below 6.7 bar with an honest effort and trigger pulls and steady enough dot.   In live fire it is WAY harder.  I can do it on the time standard, 6.50 to 6.75 no problem, but the shooting is very hard, for me, clacking of .23-25's splits and transitions at 12 yards with a for sure A zone is not real life for me. Dropping a C and several B's every string, turning 6.5 to 9-10.  The center target honestly is pretty clean, the two outside targets are a mess with no discernible pattern. I ran through a stack of moonclips and result was same.   If I lower the time bar to about 8.5 seconds, which in practice means I really have to settle the dot steady and splits/transitions are well above .32, it is doable clean, but it is nowhere near a sub 14 second total.

 

This is one of those things I eluded earlier, some of these classifiers are *extremely* hard, the number of people that I believe could walk up and do a cold 100% 1st try on this classifier could be counted on a couple fingers at most.  Maybe my perception is off though, not entirely clear.

 

Anyways, not a whine, i just thought of this thread as I was going through this exercise.