Can this be right? He's saying he's getting 100% reliability with factory ammo.

[ysrracer]

 

[MWP]

All I see is a trigger pull gauge. No ammo. 

[Toolguy]

Where does he talk about reliability?

[gargoil66]

YR:

 

I have a Lyman trigger pull gauge as seen in the video.  Looking at his technique, I think he will get light readings.  I do when I use the guage like the video.   

 

If you have one of these Lyman gauges, you really need something to check your technique until you figure out how to use it accurately.  I got so pissed at mine that I bodged together a trigger pull gauge out of some coat hanger wire and micro weights.  Then I compared my findings to the Lyman guage and found a technique that brought the two results closer.  

 

So he may be getting that reading but in reality it is probably higher.  Easy test though.  Use dead weights.  

 

GG

[ysrracer]

2 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Where does he talk about reliability?

 

Page two of this thread

 

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1772259

[Fishbreath]

As the resident GP100 guy, I absolutely don't believe he's getting ignition at all out of a GP100 with a 4lb DA pull measured in any kind of sensible fashion. The diagnosis of broken/failing scale toward the end of that thread seems correct to me.

 

They do clean up nicer than people give them credit for, though.

[ysrracer]

I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch of the imagination. But I had my gun worked on by one. I bought a trigger pull gauge just for fun.

 

Mine always comes in at 5.75 +/-. But it's only reliable with fully seated Federal Small Pistol Primers. It won't fire anything else.

 

.

Edited January 24, 2022 by ysrracer

[Toolguy]

I'm getting reliable ignition in my S&W guns that start out at 6-7 pounds, then smoothly transition down to around 3 pounds. This is with Federal non crushed primers normally seated on a Dillon 550 press. Even dialed up to 12 pounds for the starting weight, it goes down to 4-5 pounds at the end. About 60 - 65% reduction from start to finish.  I have gotten good ignition on CCI primers with a starting weight of 10 lbs. I'm also getting a snappy trigger return as well. Check out the vids at RevUpAction.com.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Toolguy

[pskys2]

From the ease of his pulls I believe the gauge, the 3lb 3.3oz reading was a bit iffy (I usually throw out something that far under the average though).  Now is it reliable?  I'd have to shoot a match with him and see for myself!

 

Have my 627 PC under 5 lbs, 627 Pro at 5 lbs, 625 PC over 5 lbs all are going good with well seated Federal Primers, but haven't shot any matches with the under 5 lb action yet.  Murphy always lurks at matches ya know.  I would never expect any of those actions to be reliable with any other primers though.  And at the first light strike I'll up the weight by a few ounces on the hammer fall, which usually equals about 1/4 lb more on the action.

[MWP]

His strain screw is not tight or loctited, that’s why his readings keep going down the more he measures and dryfires the gun. When he fires the gun it could have been at 6lbs, and it’s just gone down from there. If he takes that to the range now without touching it, they’ll all be clickers. He’s using federal primed ammo, so that helps. 
 

I have guns in the high 3s, it’s plenty doable, and the 686 has been one of the best factory guns for years now so if it was going to happen it would be that gun. 
 

At the end of the day there’s no advantage to shooting a trigger that light, even if it is possible. The guns I have that low are only good for 100-150 rounds before they’re dirty enough to not even reset the trigger. The first gun I had apex build me years ago came back around 4.5, and it was completely useless- I couldn’t get it to split faster than a .24. 
 

Most top builders and shooters think the sweet spot is 5.5-6.5 to have a reliable gun, and return spring that can keep up with quick fingers. My competition guns are on the heavy end of that, some at 7lbs. I promise any gun that’s in the 4s or 5s will not reset as fast as I need it to and be reliable. 

[ysrracer]

22 minutes ago, MWP said:

His strain screw is not tight or loctited, that’s why his readings keep going down the more he measures and dryfires the gun. When he fires the gun it could have been at 6lbs, and it’s just gone down from there. If he takes that to the range now without touching it, they’ll all be clickers. He’s using federal primed ammo, so that helps. 

 

Interesting, thanks.

[gargoil66]

On 1/24/2022 at 8:29 AM, Toolguy said:

I'm getting reliable ignition in my S&W guns that start out at 6-7 pounds, then smoothly transition down to around 3 pounds. This is with Federal non crushed primers normally seated on a Dillon 550 press. Even dialed up to 12 pounds for the starting weight, it goes down to 4-5 pounds at the end. About 60 - 65% reduction from start to finish.  I have gotten good ignition on CCI primers with a starting weight of 10 lbs. I'm also getting a snappy trigger return as well. Check out the vids at RevUpAction.com.

Have to ask.

 

What is a 'non crushed' primer?   

 

Yes, I imagine a guy could actually crush a primer when seating it but it would probably go off, too. 

 

So what does it mean and why is it important?

 

Thankyou.

 

GG

[Toolguy]

To me, a non crushed primer is just seated firmly in the normal sequence of loading press operations. Mine are a little below flush, but I don't worry about being any particular depth below. Some reloaders will seat the primers .010 or so below flush with a hand primer seater or a special setup on the press, where the primer is heavily seated to make it more sensitive. The ones of those that I've seen were squished enough that you could see a faint imprint of the anvil point in the middle of the primer. I don't want to have to go to that much effort to have reliable ignition with a super light trigger.

[pskys2]

13 hours ago, MWP said:

His strain screw is not tight or loctited, that’s why his readings keep going down the more he measures and dryfires the gun. When he fires the gun it could have been at 6lbs, and it’s just gone down from there. If he takes that to the range now without touching it, they’ll all be clickers. He’s using federal primed ammo, so that helps. 
 

I have guns in the high 3s, it’s plenty doable, and the 686 has been one of the best factory guns for years now so if it was going to happen it would be that gun. 
 

At the end of the day there’s no advantage to shooting a trigger that light, even if it is possible. The guns I have that low are only good for 100-150 rounds before they’re dirty enough to not even reset the trigger. The first gun I had apex build me years ago came back around 4.5, and it was completely useless- I couldn’t get it to split faster than a .24. 
 

Most top builders and shooters think the sweet spot is 5.5-6.5 to have a reliable gun, and return spring that can keep up with quick fingers. My competition guns are on the heavy end of that, some at 7lbs. I promise any gun that’s in the 4s or 5s will not reset as fast as I need it to and be reliable. 

I noticed the same thing.  Have my 627PC down to 4 lb 1 oz and no light strikes, yet?  Only have a few hundred rounds though.  I noticed it was easier to get low splits with my Pro at 6 lbs.  But I liked the less disruption of the sight picture with the lighter action.  But how many times do we have the opportunity to utilize a .18 split vs the shots at distance/difficulty where a more accurate shot is beneficial?  

I've been shooting 5 1/2 lb actions for the last decade, and previously had a light action from Apex that I didn't like either.

The proof will be in my performace at matches.  I'm lucky to have a buddy I shoot with who just attained GM USPSA status & is an A Class ICORE.  He's recently started edging me out, so I'm planning on upping my game and hope this will be a good starting point.

The problem though is I'm also planning on practicing more!  That will skew my results for sure.

BUT the proof is in match performace.  I plan on