1911vm Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 decide to have a SP01 slide milled for a holosun . so far my options are fire4effect $340. CZ plate system $210. and primary machine also plate about $220 any suggestions would be great. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramnj Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I used CZ Custom. They did an excellent job and using them again on my second SP01. Don’t have any experience with the other shops you mentioned and just prefer the option of using a different dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_w Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 CZC and PM have excellent reps. I would lean toward CZC given their long history and CZ specificity. Personally, I prefer milled direct mount and just pick a optic and stay withit. For comp for me personally I can not see not going with SRO. It also IMO is the most visually appealing especially milled in; not that it should be a critical factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 6 hours ago, tim_w said: CZC and PM have excellent reps. I would lean toward CZC given their long history and CZ specificity. Personally, I prefer milled direct mount and just pick a optic and stay withit. For comp for me personally I can not see not going with SRO. It also IMO is the most visually appealing especially milled in; not that it should be a critical factor. i agree my first choice was CZC but both of them are not direct mill. the both use plates on sp01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 3 hours ago, 1911vm said: i agree my first choice was CZC but both of them are not direct mill. the both use plates on sp01 A properly designed plate system is superior to direct milling. CZC's plate system is properly designed. The plate is mechanically captured so the screws that hold the plate don't take shear forces and the plates have recoil posts for all optics that accept them so the optic's screws are also isolated from shearing stresses. The CZ OEM plate system is also excellent. Most others I've seen suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_w Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 @ SGT Well finally a properly made and machined mounting system then. To be clear I have not seen the CZC system in person only online. So completely open to its qualities. But I do know it is possible so no reason to disagree with you. So does the plate fit tight against the front and rear wall of the slide pocket. Then does the plate have a front and rear lip of its own that the optic nests in like the plate to the slide? I ask because there are plenty of systems that use bosses studs but still have bolts shear. Now that can be because of loose tolerences. That is why I had preferred that direct fit as it creates a tight slip fit with the walls capturing the optic plus the bosses and then bolts for compression force. Personally, I really like the slightly lower mount hieght. I seem to transition easier back and forth between irons and optic. But that is personal preference and not the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/22/2021 at 8:32 AM, SGT_Schultz said: A properly designed plate system is superior to direct milling. CZC's plate system is properly designed. The plate is mechanically captured so the screws that hold the plate don't take shear forces and the plates have recoil posts for all optics that accept them so the optic's screws are also isolated from shearing stresses. The CZ OEM plate system is also excellent. Most others I've seen suck. Ok so this is a very good explanation. I am starting to understand a bit better. My consern was that with the plate system all that holds the optic are the screws. But if I understood correctly what you are saying there a pins that are part of the plate that engage in to the optic and the screws basically keep the optic down. Am I understanding this correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, 1911vm said: My consern was that with the plate system all that holds the optic are the screws. But if I understood correctly what you are saying there a pins that are part of the plate that engage in to the optic and the screws basically keep the optic down. Am I understanding this correctly? Depends on whose plate system you're talking about. Some rely only on the screws to take all the forces (compression and shear), others rely on a mechanical interconnection between the plate and the slide. That mechanical connection might be studs and holes or it might be shoulders and recesses. CZ's OEM systems use shoulders and recesses to transfer shear loads between the plate and slide. There are two different patterns, one for the P-10 series and one for the Shadow 2. P-10. The cross shaped shoulders on the slide cutout engage cutouts of the same shape on the bottom of the optic plate and the filler plate. Yes, there's a tiny bit of clearance between the two (not tolerance, that's a completely different thing) but it's immaterial to durability of the joint (my experience over 15000 rounds) The two pockets are clearance for the optic's screws that thread into the adapter plate. Shadow 2. Couldn't find a similar picture but you can see a different system of shoulders and recesses at the joint between the plate and the slide. Both the Shadow 2 and P-10 plate systems have studs that engage holes on the bottom of the optic to do the same force transfer. This is an example of a poorly designed plate to slide interface. This is a Glock MOS slide. There's a raised shoulder that runs front to back but none that runs side to side. The majority of the shearing forces (likely all of them) are taken up by the screws that hold the plate down to the slide. There's a small feature at the front right but I'm not sure if that serves any purpose other than preventing the plates to be mounted backwards. Edited October 30, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) Its going on SP01. The fire4effect mills specifically for the sight. Its just more $ than I expected. Probably be the most solid fit i guess. Edited October 30, 2021 by 1911vm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 I had Cajun Gun works mill my CZ compact (picked a sight & went with direct milling I prefer less slide weight and a dot height closer to the iron sights height). They did a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdad45 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 I had Primary Machine do two slides, one on my SP-01 and another on a 320 Compact. The SRO does require a plate for the SP-01. I have been shooting it at matches for a year and have had no issues. PM price also includes cerakote of the slide. I am very happy with the work they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 2 hours ago, 1911vm said: Its going on SP01. The fire4effect mills specifically for the sight. Its just more $ than I expected. Probably be the most solid fit i guess. I'd talk to CZ Custom about their plate system. Direct milling is NOT superior from a durability standpoint compared to a good plate system and it's inferior in flexibility and "future proofing". Direct milling HAS to leave a small gap between the front and rear of the optic and the slide cut. Otherwise there is no way to install and remove the sight, despite what anyone might have led you to believe. I'm just relying on 26 years of manufacturing engineering experience...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 57 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said: I'd talk to CZ Custom about their plate system. Direct milling is NOT superior from a durability standpoint compared to a good plate system and it's inferior in flexibility and "future proofing". Direct milling HAS to leave a small gap between the front and rear of the optic and the slide cut. Otherwise there is no way to install and remove the sight, despite what anyone might have led you to believe. I'm just relying on 26 years of manufacturing engineering experience...... Honestly I think you guys have talked me in to CZC. They gave always done great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: Direct milling HAS to leave a small gap between the front and rear of the optic and the slide cut. Otherwise there is no way to install and remove the sight, despite what anyone might have led you to believe. Cajun gun works was a slight interference fit on my CZ compact, impressive actually, I do not know if that is typical. Edited October 31, 2021 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollymon32 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 About 6 months ago, or maybe more, I had a buddy sent his S2 to Cajun Gun Works. They milled the slide specifically for the SRO. When I decided to send in my SP01 to get milled, I reached out to CZC and the wait time was way too long. I ended up sending the slide to my backup SP01 to Cajun. Although cajun said that it would be about 10 week turnaround, I received it back in about five or six weeks. However, it was not directly attached to the slide. They milled the slide and used a plate system for the mounting. They seem to have changed their preference on how the optics are mounted to the slides since my buddy sent his in a while back. it was very well done and I was satisfied enough to send my primary gun”s slide to them to have that one milled and the SRO installed. The turnaround on this one has been about four weeks. I just received notification on Friday that it was on the armors’ bench and they would be contacting me for payment and shipping instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: Cajun gun works was a slight interference fit on my CZ compact, impressive actually, I do not know if that is typical. If you can take in and out by hand it's not an interference fit, even if you have to wiggle it in and out. Even a small amount (.0001 - .0002") of interference will need either a temperature differential or some mechanical force to get things together. What you have is still a slip fit, thought it might be very close. So close that the slightest misalignment will not let the parts go together. Did you send them your optic? Other than dumb luck, that's the only way to get the pocket and/or the posts machined that close. Edited October 31, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: If you can take in and out by hand it's not an interference fit, even if you have to wiggle it in and out. Even a small amount (.0001 - .0002") of interference will need either a temperature differential or some mechanical force to get things together. What you have is still a slip fit, thought it might be very close. So close that the slightest misalignment will not let the parts go together. Did you send them your optic? Other than dumb luck, that's the only way to get the pocket and/or the posts machined that close. If the sight bottom was a solid piece of metal you would be on track. Edited October 31, 2021 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: If the sight bottom was a solid piece of metal you would be on track. Which sight is made that way so I avoid it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said: Which sight is made that way so I avoid it? https://www.leupold.com/deltapoint-pro-fde-red-dot To the best of my knowledge there is nothing at all wrong with that type or brand of sight. It would be interesting to ask CGW about actual base cut tolerances for typical sight construction (rounded - some type of coating over the aluminum, hollowed, etc, like the one in your pictures for example). I am going from memory here but I think CGW told me that the slight interference was expected and typical. Edited November 1, 2021 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: I think CGW told me that the slight interference was expected and typical. In my industry words have specific meanings. Interference fits cannot be assembled by hand. I don't care how others define it. If you don't need a press or a hammer or heat/cold, you don't have an interference fit. I'm going to move on from this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 35 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said: I don't care how others define it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911vm Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) Wow did not think it would get this deep. All I wanted is a direction to go in. Hahaha. Breathe it ain't that big of a deal. And think I am going CZC . I think that being able to switch to a different optic if I don't like what I picked. Edited November 1, 2021 by 1911vm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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