RL1100 Automation Options

[ezra650]

I started loading on my new RL1100 in March with plans to eventually automate for commercial usage. I'm primarily looking for feedback from members who have an RL1100 that is automated but I realize that may be a small number. Loaders with other automated dillons are welcome to chime in. I was hoping to send my press to Forcht for his drive, but he hasn't yet adapted or designed a drive for the new RL1100. 

Currently the only 2 options available are the MK7 Pro Autodrive and the FFB autodrive. I'd like to hear experiences on both and any other autodrives on the market that I may be overlooking for the RL1100. My fingers are crossed that Dillon will unveil a drive next month at NRA show that will be full featured/upgradeable and price competitive. I spoke with a rep and their original plans were to release early this year but with COVID/high demand that timeline got pushed and he didn't know more than that. 

If I go with the MK7 the only sensor I will get is the bullet sensor. I plan to process all brass before the loading pass so I should have several contingencies in place for brass that doesn't get deprimed or swaged. My only concern is setting off a stack of primers. A few small things that concern me on the MK7 drive. Max speed of 2400rph and the buggy tablet. I doubt the max speed will be an issue for loading, but for processing brass I'd like to go faster as I wish. 

The FFB seems like a unit that is more commercial minded. I also believe there is a large benefit of modifying the press to allow the linkage to make a continuous rotation as it cycles. That is one reason why Forcht was going to be my first choice. Based on my limited experience loading manual on the 1100 it seems the sudden stop of the shellplate is what causes most jams and I suspect why the MK7 limits you to 2400rph. My main concern with the FFB drive is customer support after purchase, they seem to be very busy. Also tinkering with the settings is probably more difficult on the FFB VFD vs the MK7 tablet, but I have no doubt I can figure all that out with a user manual. Otherwise, based on what I can tell the FFB is a higher quality product than the MK7 drive. 

I think cost would be about the same on either drive +/- $100, MK7 with bullet sense will be $2300 and the FFB is $2300+ cost of their bullet sensor. Also their site says the bullet sensor is under development and that is a must have in my opinion. So I may have to load without it for some time if I get the FFB drive.  Either way, the MK7 is out of stock right now and FFB is being effected by the chip shortage and is waiting on VFDs for 3+ months now. I'm not in a huge rush to automate and I have some small bugs to iron out before I feel confident to automate the press. 

[ezra650]

I was poking around the MK7 site and I see the 1050 Pro Drive being advertised to run at 3500rph. This must be new? 

[ddc]

57 minutes ago, ezra650 said:

I was poking around the MK7 site and I see the 1050 Pro Drive being advertised to run at 3500rph. This must be new? 

 

I'd love to see someone actually loading at 3500rph. And not just for a few minutes; hour after hour.

 

Processing only? Ok.

[ezra650]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

 

I'd love to see someone actually loading at 3500rph. And not just for a few minutes; hour after hour.

 

Processing only? Ok.

Yeah thats why I want the faster speeds. I'll be doing more brass prep/conversion on this machine than loading. If I can load 9mm at a max of 2000-2500rph I'll be ecstatic. Throwing powder fast enough and accurate enough and not slinging bullets seems to be main hurdles to clear loading on a rotary press in those upper speeds. Have you seen the video of the 1050 priming 9mm brass at 5000rph? It's really neat to see.  

[ddc]

1 hour ago, ezra650 said:

Yeah thats why I want the faster speeds. I'll be doing more brass prep/conversion on this machine than loading. If I can load 9mm at a max of 2000-2500rph I'll be ecstatic. Throwing powder fast enough and accurate enough and not slinging bullets seems to be main hurdles to clear loading on a rotary press in those upper speeds. Have you seen the video of the 1050 priming 9mm brass at 5000rph? It's really neat to see.  

 

I have not but that would be way cool.

Based upon my experience with an Ammobot and the 1100 I would think the Achilles heel would be the indexing mechanism. 

 

[dansedgli]

Ive got an older mark 7 that does 2400 on a 1050. 

 

It can load at that speed but its stressful to watch. I don't think its sustainable. You are just waiting for a problem at that speed.  

 

1800 is a nice pace and you can stop it if you see an upside down bullet or something. 

 

When I preprocess 2400 seems ok but sometimes a case will jam on insertion into the shell plate, it might jam for a second then gets thrown across the room or it will clutch out. It is much smoother at lower speeds. 

 

My unit is 4 or so years old, the tablet has never been buggy. A friend has a mark 7 on his 1100. No complaints. 

 

 

 

[ddc]

10 hours ago, dansedgli said:

Ive got an older mark 7 that does 2400 on a 1050. 

 

It can load at that speed but its stressful to watch. I don't think its sustainable. You are just waiting for a problem at that speed.  

 

1800 is a nice pace and you can stop it if you see an upside down bullet or something. 

 

When I preprocess 2400 seems ok but sometimes a case will jam on insertion into the shell plate, it might jam for a second then gets thrown across the room or it will clutch out. It is much smoother at lower speeds. 

 

My unit is 4 or so years old, the tablet has never been buggy. A friend has a mark 7 on his 1100. No complaints. 

 

 

 

 

My setup will work at 1800 but I'm a lot more comfortable at around 1500.

I don't have any sensors and I really have to pay attention at 1800. 

I find my mind wanders far too easily when I'm just standing there monitoring things.

[ezra650]

16 hours ago, dansedgli said:

Ive got an older mark 7 that does 2400 on a 1050. 

 

It can load at that speed but its stressful to watch. I don't think its sustainable. You are just waiting for a problem at that speed.  

 

1800 is a nice pace and you can stop it if you see an upside down bullet or something. 

 

When I preprocess 2400 seems ok but sometimes a case will jam on insertion into the shell plate, it might jam for a second then gets thrown across the room or it will clutch out. It is much smoother at lower speeds. 

 

My unit is 4 or so years old, the tablet has never been buggy. A friend has a mark 7 on his 1100. No complaints. 

 

 

 

Great feedback. Thanks for sharing! Seeing how simple it is to order the MK7 and get it setup I'm slightly leaning toward it.

 

When I load manual I crank the press at or near 2000rph. If I went faster I think the remote stop button would come in handy for autodrive. 

 

Funny you mention the case insertion issue. I have had that issue randomly since I got the 1100. I put half a 1911 recoil spring in the case slide and it helped but just recently its started happening again. I'm wondering if an aftermarket shellplate will make it better or worse. 

[midatlantic]

I have an 1100 with the Mk 7. My first bit of advice would be to get the powder sensor, because when you takeoff the ratchet in the rear I found it to be far too easy to double charge or under charge a cartridge. Plus the way the mark seven powder sensor is designed you have both a visual reference you can watch and the tablet will turn the machine off with an over under charge.

 

I found the mk 7 1100 Combination to be pretty finicky. you have to get the Dillon working exactly correctly, And keep it there. Trial and error. I also found Dillon recommend cleaning intervals to be to low. When they recommend every 10,000 rounds I’d suggest every six or seven. Pay very close attention to the primer system.

Also the indexing ball and spring. I switched to the composite ball and I’m going back to the stainless steel ball and new spring after a failure to index correctly bent a 9 mm shell  plate. The shell plate indexing suddenly became erratic and the swagger bent the plate on an upstroke. Not sure of the cause, but can’t fix it w existing ball and spring. So ordering new.  Keep the Primer feed tubes clean. I think you need to clean every five or 600 primers or else risk a up a jam in the tube then it becomes a mess. 
 

In the past I’ve considered myself a decent home mechanic. I do my own gun smithing, built 1911s and a 2011,  had no problems with the  650, I’ve built a couple of plywood sailing dinghies etc. But the 1100/mk 7 Has never allowed me to load more than five or 600 rounds before a stoppage or some other problem that involve disassembling the primer system or some other parts. It may be me, but that’s my experience.

 

I’ve had the system for about five months…still finding new ways to cause new problems:) the max I’ve loaded  is 1500 rph.

Edited August 22, 2021 by midatlantic

[ddc]

3 hours ago, midatlantic said:

I have an 1100 with the Mk 7. My first bit of advice would be to get the powder sensor, because when you takeoff the ratchet in the rear I found it to be far too easy to double charge or under charge a cartridge. Plus the way the mark seven powder sensor is designed you have both a visual reference you can watch and the tablet will turn the machine off with an over under charge.

 

I found the mk 7 1100 Combination to be pretty finicky. you have to get the Dillon working exactly correctly, And keep it there. Trial and error. I also found Dillon recommend cleaning intervals to be to low. When they recommend every 10,000 rounds I’d suggest every six or seven. Pay very close attention to the primer system.

Also the indexing ball and spring. I switched to the composite ball and I’m going back to the stainless steel ball and new spring after a failure to index correctly bent a 9 mm shell  plate. The shell plate indexing suddenly became erratic and the swagger bent the plate on an upstroke. Not sure of the cause, but can’t fix it w existing ball and spring. So ordering new.  Keep the Primer feed tubes clean. I think you need to clean every five or 600 primers or else risk a up a jam in the tube then it becomes a mess. 
 

In the past I’ve considered myself a decent home mechanic. I do my own gun smithing, built 1911s and a 2011,  had no problems with the  650, I’ve built a couple of plywood sailing dinghies etc. But the 1100/mk 7 Has never allowed me to load more than five or 600 rounds before a stoppage or some other problem that involve disassembling the primer system or some other parts. It may be me, but that’s my experience.

 

I’ve had the system for about five months…still finding new ways to cause new problems:) the max I’ve loaded  is 1500 rph.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying. My only argument(not really arguing) is the issue with the powder sensor. I didn't want to seat/crimp in one station. But that is certainly a personal decision.

 

Yes the 1100 has to be working perfectly. And I agree that every 10k is too long a cycle between cleaning.

 

I'm using an Ammobot to drive mine. Initially I was tearing my hair out with indexing issues which eventually were  resolved after a trip back to Dillon.

 

Now that I'm much more at home with the 1100, at least 50k rounds, I'm finding my stoppages are a fraction of what they were early on.

 

I'd say my issues are entirely Dillon oriented, not Ammobot. Between bent indexing system shoulder bolts, primer system, case feeder, etc. something was always hanging up the process.

A couple of bent shell plates also when the indexing was messed up.

 

Although I fought against it initially I've come to believe that a two pass strategy works best with automation.

 

PS: If you are having indexing problems install new index lever and index roller shoulder bolts. If those get bent even a small amount you can have an indexing problem.

The bend does not have to be obvious to cause problems either.

 

[midatlantic]

DDC,  good points on the index lever and shoulder. Will order now. Since I last posted, Now you know how I spent  my Sunday afternoon, I replaced the stock index pawl with the  Forcht heavy duty..I already had it just hadn’t installed it, and cleaned the spring etc., and I pulled apart the Mk 7 pulley etc and cleaned and reinstalled that. Seems to have solved my indexing problem. Perhaps some erratic operation of the mk7? Not sure.  Now I’m waiting on a new Dillon 9mm shell plate.  
 

im also intrigued by your two pass strategy. So it’s one pass to Decap and resize and swage, and another to prime, powder and bullet? 

Edited August 22, 2021 by midatlantic

[Cuz]

22 minutes ago, midatlantic said:

DDC,  good points on the index lever and shoulder. Will order now. Since I last posted, Now you know how I spent  my Sunday afternoon, I replaced the stock index pawl with the  Forcht heavy duty..I already had it just hadn’t installed it, and cleaned the spring etc., and I pulled apart the Mk 7 pulley etc and cleaned and reinstalled that. Seems to have solved my indexing problem. Perhaps some erratic operation of the mk7? Not sure.  Now I’m waiting on a new Dillon 9mm shell plate.  
 

im also intrigued by your two pass strategy. So it’s one pass to Decap and resize and swage, and another to prime, powder and bullet? 

Lots of two pass discussion here:

 

[ezra650]

4 hours ago, midatlantic said:

I have an 1100 with the Mk 7. My first bit of advice would be to get the powder sensor, because when you takeoff the ratchet in the rear I found it to be far too easy to double charge or under charge a cartridge. Plus the way the mark seven powder sensor is designed you have both a visual reference you can watch and the tablet will turn the machine off with an over under charge.

 

I found the mk 7 1100 Combination to be pretty finicky. you have to get the Dillon working exactly correctly, And keep it there. Trial and error. I also found Dillon recommend cleaning intervals to be to low. When they recommend every 10,000 rounds I’d suggest every six or seven. Pay very close attention to the primer system.

Also the indexing ball and spring. I switched to the composite ball and I’m going back to the stainless steel ball and new spring after a failure to index correctly bent a 9 mm shell  plate. The shell plate indexing suddenly became erratic and the swagger bent the plate on an upstroke. Not sure of the cause, but can’t fix it w existing ball and spring. So ordering new.  Keep the Primer feed tubes clean. I think you need to clean every five or 600 primers or else risk a up a jam in the tube then it becomes a mess. 
 

In the past I’ve considered myself a decent home mechanic. I do my own gun smithing, built 1911s and a 2011,  had no problems with the  650, I’ve built a couple of plywood sailing dinghies etc. But the 1100/mk 7 Has never allowed me to load more than five or 600 rounds before a stoppage or some other problem that involve disassembling the primer system or some other parts. It may be me, but that’s my experience.

 

I’ve had the system for about five months…still finding new ways to cause new problems:) the max I’ve loaded  is 1500 rph.

Oof, not what I was hoping to hear. So you are using the MK7 powder measure on your Dillon, neat. I wasn't planning to run a powder check because I dont want to give up my lee FCD. I figure as long as I'm not absent minded during a stoppage I should have no issue with no charge or double charges.

 

100% agree on cleaning intervals. I had some issues when I first set the press up with the priming system. I've learned how to set it up and polishing the primer slide helped a lot. My best helper is canned air. The only jams I encounter now are brass falling off the shellplate upon insertion and bullets falling off case mouths. I'd really like to see a bullet feed and seat station. Similar to what lee has and Frankford Arsenal has on their new FX-10.

[ezra650]

7 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Lots of two pass discussion here:

 

Yep I'm 100% in the camp that brass needs to be processed on its own pass. I plan to run 2 decap and 2 size dies and mandrel die depending on caliber.

[ddc]

1 hour ago, midatlantic said:

DDC,  good points on the index lever and shoulder. Will order now. Since I last posted, Now you know how I spent  my Sunday afternoon, I replaced the stock index pawl with the  Forcht heavy duty..I already had it just hadn’t installed it, and cleaned the spring etc., and I pulled apart the Mk 7 pulley etc and cleaned and reinstalled that. Seems to have solved my indexing problem. Perhaps some erratic operation of the mk7? Not sure.  Now I’m waiting on a new Dillon 9mm shell plate.  
 

im also intrigued by your two pass strategy. So it’s one pass to Decap and resize and swage, and another to prime, powder and bullet? 

 

That's the basic idea. Many automation stoppages come about from decapping issues. That thread that Cuz referenced is good. There are others as well as I recall.

 

I actually use three decapping dies. 

On my processing tool head I've got the FW Arms decapper in station 2 and the Lee sizer/decapper in station 8.

Then on my loading tool head I've got the the Lee sizer/decapper in station 2 just in case.

Yeah it's way overkill for sure.

 

As far as those shoulder bolts are concerned, pick them up from McMaster-Carr, much cheaper than dillon.

Part numbers are 91259A619 and 91259A628. In my experience the index roller bolt needs replacing more often. Index lever bolt not as frequently.

Edited August 22, 2021 by ddc
corrected part number typo