Increasing Revolver Participation

[uscbigdawg]

Just my opinion and chalk it up to what you will as to why maybe folks aren't shooting Revolver in IPSC/USPSA:

A few years ago, I bought a Taurus 608 (8-shot .357/38). It had work done to it, but to add to the mix, I sent it to Bob Miles for a better trigger, fixing the cylinder indexing and just going through the entire pistol and making it run! Too, I had him make me some moon clips as I only had 20 and know they go quickly.

So working up loads, practicing draws, reloads, etc. The purpose of this pistol was for two matches and two matches only. ICORE's IRC and the occasional USPSA match, but definitely including Sectionals, Area and even National events.

The day, and not a day later, when USPSA announced that 8 shot revolvers are a no go and would shoot with either L10 or in the group with Open, I said screw it. I'm out of there. Sold it and never looked back.

Now I know that 6 shot revolvers sell more than 8's, BUT there are a lot of people that were in similar boats. Too, in IDPA, it appears that revo's are the third or fourth gun folks use in competition and definitely don't consider it for cross-over into USPSA.

Just my two cents,

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic

249th MP Detachment (EACF)

Camp Humphreys, ROK

[Chuck D]

I can share a similar story about a PC 627, an e-mail saying the gun was a "go" for the Division and then the bomb is dropped...

" You can use it but you can only load 6 rounds"....

sure dampened by spirit...

Edited November 15, 2005 by Chuck D

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Rule changes are not necessary to promote Revolver. One of the biggest criticisms I hear is "Why should we change for you" I agree. Re-read Patrick's I am a revolver shooter and take it to heart.

Show up, shoot, have a good time, explain the revolvers to anyone who asks and it will come. Not in leaps and bounds, but it will come.

Attendance by revolver shooters at local and regional matches is also important. Many can not travel great distances to a match just to make a showing. In these cases, show up at the local matches as often as you can. Shoot your area match and any other major match you can.

For me, I have joked about travel and distance to matches. I am self employed and my only employee. If I go, the business is closed so I don't go away that often. I chose to do it so I do it.

This year I plan to shoot AWARE and Area 7 providing the work load allows it. In the past I have not gone because revolvers were looked down on. Now I don't care. I pay my money and I will shoot whatever I want and will have a good time.

As far as IDPA and USPSA cross over, I am one of those. Many who shoot IDPA only in either of the revolver divisions feel that USPSA is not revolver friendly. I have found that USPSA is helping my IDPA performance.

Revolver only matches are good but in the long run they just feed the myth that we expect USPSA to change for us. One or two a year in different venues that allow for all to participate would be a bonus to the division.

I look forward to Hop's Southern Revolver match but again, as with any major commitment, I personally need a lot of notice to plan ahead.

Regards,

[Waltermitty]

Just my opinion and chalk it up to what you will as to why maybe folks aren't shooting Revolver in IPSC/USPSA:

A few years ago, I bought a Taurus 608 (8-shot .357/38). It had work done to it, but to add to the mix, I sent it to Bob Miles for a better trigger, fixing the cylinder indexing and just going through the entire pistol and making it run! Too, I had him make me some moon clips as I only had 20 and know they go quickly.

So working up loads, practicing draws, reloads, etc. The purpose of this pistol was for two matches and two matches only. ICORE's IRC and the occasional USPSA match, but definitely including Sectionals, Area and even National events.

The day, and not a day later, when USPSA announced that 8 shot revolvers are a no go and would shoot with either L10 or in the group with Open, I said screw it. I'm out of there. Sold it and never looked back.

Now I know that 6 shot revolvers sell more than 8's, BUT there are a lot of people that were in similar boats. Too, in IDPA, it appears that revo's are the third or fourth gun folks use in competition and definitely don't consider it for cross-over into USPSA.

Just my two cents,

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic

249th MP Detachment (EACF)

Camp Humphreys, ROK

Yeah, I knew two or three folks in the same situation when revolver division came out. Any rule change like that is gonna be a problem. Going the other way, if 8-shot revos are suddenly included in revo division, other shooters will be hacked off. Including my wife who just bought me a new backup 625. At the time the rule was made, 7 & 8 shot revos were brand new. I'm sure at the time a good faith effort was made to attract the most potential participants. That was, and probably still is, 6 shots per reload.

That's why, in some regards, I wish USPSA (IPSC) could be just a little more flexible with the equipment rules, while maintaining parity. Rather than focusing on creating divisions for specific equipment or people, establish general limits for major divisions and then build flexibility in the scoring software for all the sub-categories. Similar to what Gary was proposing.

We might be surprised at how many people would bring out 5-shot backup guns (my first two classifiers were with a Ruger SP101) or mouse guns (less than 125 PF) if we could accomodate them. So I'm not proposing a mouse gun division (Kel Tec P32 SuperSquad anyone?) but I think there could be a way to focus on the other rules in the game and sub-divide the divisions to include more folks without increasing match overhead.

The rules clearly state how many folks you gotta drum up to get your division or category recognized at a match.

[Carmoney]

The more I think about this, and read the posts you guys have put up here on the board, the more I think maybe Dave's proposal is a good one: Allow 7- and 8-shot revolvers but with minor scoring only (sorta like they've done with Single-Stack). Seems like this would encourage more people to play, and give all of us more options. I can think of at least two guys at my local club who have voiced a desire to shoot their 8-shooters (not including me and Sam).

I do not believe that this rule adjustment would automatically create the need for the 625 shooter to acquire different gear. I think over the course of the typical larger (sectional/area/national) USPSA match, the relative advantages of the 8-shot minor and 6-shot major guns would be nearly a wash.

The downside would be the perception of the equipment race. I can easily imagine those of us with both platforms pushing hard for advance stage diagrams, or bringing both sets of equipment along and decide which one to shoot after looking over the stages! Whether that would be good or bad for the division can be debated. I think it would add to the fun, but I'm sure others would not feel the same way.

I don't care either way about barrel venting and comps and all that--that crap is all placebo with the type of loads we'd be using anyway (.38/.357 minor and .45 major)--we learned that back in the golden days of pin-shooting.

Interesting stuff.

[pskys2]

Bubber on a 30 round field course at 85% = about 5 shots outside of the A. If you are good and get C's then your still down 10 points, acceptable. But, if you shoot D's your now down 20 points. With the emphasis on Speed Field Courses with HF of 6 or better, well with a 15 second course you'd have to make up 2 whole seconds. Course 1 flubbed reload eats that pretty quick.

All I have is 6 shot Revolvers and I don't ever try to shoot slow enough to get all A's, and if I do try I usually jerk one because my timing is off. So, while I don't spray and pray, I definitely try to shoot "Pumped Up". I wouldn't trade up to an 8 shot to shoot minor, and after shooting my .357 vs .45, both at major, I don't think I'd want to shoot Major with an 8 shot.

In the days of old I always liked the rivalry caused by major/minor and capacity. It led to a lot of good natured ribbing, especialy if a "Minor" guy won.

The more I think on it the better I like it.

As for Vents, etc... they would have to shoot Minor, to reduce their advantage. Dots are a different story and course design can play a huge role. Dots would be a big advantage but I don't think they fit into the "Mystic" of IPSC Revolver.

The down side of doing this officially would be the Classifier System. With the round counts of many of the Classifiers, I would guess there would be an increase in some shooters classification scores, that wouldn't necessarily translate to performance at bigger matches.

Mike I say try it at your Revo Match, I'll try to be there. If the Sunflower doesn't go "Sectional" I'm going to try to sell it there.

Either way I'm up for trying to get some Revo squads going at the Area and Sectionals this year.

Dave

[Carlos]

One answer? Publicize the fact that there will be one or more revolver shooters at a match.

Here is Area 8, we have had 2 or 3 local matches late this year (after Nationals) where several revolver owners got together & shot on the same squad.

At the last Thurmont, MD match, no fewer than 8 of us shot revolver; at last weekend's York, there were 3 or 4 and I believe Fredericksburg also had a squad or so of shooters.

Key is just for ONE person to make a commitment to shoot the match with a revolver and then TELL everyone & see who shows up with a wheelgun.

[revchuck]

+1 to what Round Gun Shooter said. I too am an IDPA and USUPSA shooter (though not lately - sometimes being in the LA National Guard can get in the way when there are two disasterous hurricanes within a month - I'm STILL mobilized!) and don't see the equipment issue as that big a deal. Show up, shoot and have so much fun that others will want to join in.

I now have enough speedloader holders to make it through the longest (vaguely legal) field course. I guess I'm just gonna let my Gubmint Model whimper quietly in the gun safe the next USPSA match I shoot.

[Steve Moneypenny]

This is just my 2 cents, but it may have it's place.

I see revolver shooters being teased and mocked a lot.. not like school yard bullying, but generally just banter, I try to only do this to revolver shooters i know (bill and hopalong) a lot of people feel very disenchanted with what they see and is pointed out by those they see as an equipment disadvantage, I'm not advocating a group hug here, but lets atleast not push them away from the only gun they may have, or what they enjoy shooting.