Dryfire for Multigun/3-Gun, Books and Videos ???

[Just4FunLP]

Been shooting USPSA for 8 years and I'm starting to dabble in Multigun. I've always enjoyed my pistol dryfire and would like to incorporate my rifle. Are there any books or videos dedicated to this?  I've always used Ben Stoeger's books for pistol...  I've also got Jerry Miculek's DVD, which is very good, but I'm looking for something with more information on dryfire.  Thanks

[Adamj]

I don't know of any 3 gun specific dry fire materials. The 3 Gun Show podcast has hours of interviews with high level guys who discuss their processes.

 

I would do all the drills you do with your pistol with your long guns as well. Target transitions, loads, manipulations, enter/exit positions, and "draws". Main additions would be transitions between weapons and quad loading if you make the mistake of not shooting open. 

 

If you shoot longer distance practice efficiently getting into and out of supported rifle positions. You can really seperate yourself from the field on the rifle. It goes without saying, but knowing your dope is crucial. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Adamj

[AustinWolv]

Can't recall a specific 3gun dry-fire book out there.  Suggest to create your own plan, tailored to your weaknesses to work on.

 

3gun matches vary quite a bit in flavor, from bay hoser stuff to rather technical "close-range" stuff to long movement natural terrain stages.  Thus, based on the flavor of the match you are attending, you'll tailor prep to it.

 

Some things to work at home in regards to 3gun:

Gun transitions - dumping a pistol or long gun and switching to the next gun.  Lots of match time can be made here.  Get an old sturdy plastic trash can, weight it down, add cushiony stuff at the bottom, and work on smooth technique to ditch the long gun and go to pistol.  Use a small bucket to ditch pistol and transition to slung long guns.

 

Shotgun quad loading - tons of videos out there.  Spend a couple weeks to get the technique down and you'll be golden.  Don't sweat being the fastest, as there is typically tons of movement time to effectively quad load.  More important to consistently and smoothly get shells in the gun during matches than have a blazing fast quad load due to that movement time.  

 

Off-hand rifle - set up small scaled targets to replicate 100yd steel in the space you have.  Learn to read the sight movement and break the shot as the aiming point is approaching the target.  Look up Pat Kelley's YT video on approach shooting as reference. 

 

Keep up your pistol dry-fire work, being great at pistol in 3gun goes a long way.  Generally, 3gun will use a lot of steel at distance compared to USPSA, including shots out to 100yds on C-zones for example, so you can dry-fire that as well.

 

Target transitions - not new to you, but work on much wider target transitions to replicate some of the long movement wide natural terrain transitions you'll encounter

 

Rifle positions - get used to quickly getting into a stable position with rifle for targets at distance.  Prone, kneeling, standing braced off of any type of prop you can think of (ladder, rickety chair, VTAC barricade, a random log, anything unstable).  Small scaled target in space you have.  Lots of folks lose a ton of time ambling up to a shooting position, taking a bunch of time to get braced and stable.  Get used to doing it quickly and learn how you like to brace the gun, what works for you to be stable -> then, go confirm live fire.

 

Just some stuff off top of my head real quick.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by AustinWolv

[Just4FunLP]

Wow.  Tons of great information...  Don't know if you wrote all this today or maybe copied it from another post. Either way I really appreciate it. 

 

I have seen the video on approach shooting and want to give it a try in live fire.  You may laugh, but part of the reason I'm getting into rifle is because a few years ago I won a Red Rider BB gun in a white elephant gift exchange. I set up a couple of pie tins at 25yds and attached a custom cardboard rear sight and I shoot that thing two or three times a day. lol. I just watched that video again and realized I've been using the approach technique without knowing it was a technique...  I guess with enough inexpensive ammo your brain will eventually figure out what to do. We have a great creator. Thanks God!!! 

 

In your paragraph on pistol you mentioned steel targets "C zone" at 100yds. Are you saying they have you shoot pistol at 100yds?  

 

Also, what size and shape targets do they have, and at what distances? I can figure out the scaling. 

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I really enjoy dryfire and want to do it right from the start. You should write a book...  

[AustinWolv]

Today, didn't take long. 

 

Fixed the double post (I wasn't logged in originally, so inadvertantly submitted as guest, but then saw what happened and copy/paste, after which I logged in normally, but didn't realize it kept the guest post.)

 

If you have concept of approach shooting slready and get good at that offhand rilfe, you'll be well-served, along with those pistol skills.  There is a lot of time to gain on people for offhand shooting, accurate pistol at distance, and then minimizing make-up shots on long-range rifle shots.

 

Quote

Are you saying they have you shoot pistol at 100yds?

 

Yes, be prepared to shoot pistol from 0-100yds.  Not overly common to shoot them at 70-100yds except for some majors, but locals and other majors will easily have them 40-75yds often.  Targets at that distance are usually C-zones.

There have been some other big matches that I've shot larger steel out to 120yds, but that is uncommon.  

Pistol racks at 25yds.  

Steel knockdowns, anywhere from 4" to 8", typically seen in the 15-20yd range, but some matches will extend that out to 30yds (not the 4" ones).

 

Quote

Also, what size and shape targets do they have, and at what distances? I can figure out the scaling. 

For rifle targets at distance, general guideline for years has been 4MOA, although you'll rarely see 4" targets at 100yds.  Most of the time you'll get 6" gongs at 100yds, but will typically see 4MOA from there on out, i.e. 8" at 200, 12" at 300, and so on.  

Round gongs are most common, followed by C-zone steel which they'll use out to about 300yds typically.  Beyond that, round gongs pretty much, but once targets get to 500-600yds, some matches will use full-size IPSC-shaped steel or rectangles roughly sized at that.  

Plate racks at 75-100yds are seen often enough as well.

 

Quote

Sorry for all the questions

No worries at all.  

 

There are a number of videos at my sig link so you can get a flavor of different matches, although mine are skewed to long natural terrain, as I prefer that style to short movement hoser stuff.

Edited January 17, 2021 by AustinWolv

[Just4FunLP]

This really helps. I’ve got a few questions about gear, but I think I’ll start another post. I’m about to get my reloader setup to handle 223, but now we’re in another ammo apocalypse... perfect timing. ....

 

Thanks again. 

[Intheshaw1]

When I was in the Army we ran a lot of drills from Kyle Lambs book Green Eyes and Black Rifles. There is a lot in there for setting up your gear and different drills to do. Not sure how much translates to 3 gun as I haven't opened up my book in probably 10 years but I'm planning on rereading it soon ahead of the shooting season.

[IHMSA15151]

One other thing you might want to try as part of your dry fire drills is movement, if you have the room to do so. A lot of the time you will be moving while reloading which saves time if done efficiently. You can practice that easily at home. Run from point  A to point B while changing mags. Also there will be times when it is advantageous to actually shoot while moving. Some stages will be better shot by running to a specific position and then shooting, some will be better shooting as you move. Set up a few targets and practice walking parallel to them, or coming forward towards them while getting a good sight picture and dry firing. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by IHMSA15151

[Just4FunLP]

11 minutes ago, IHMSA15151 said:

One other thing you might want to try as part of your dry fire drills is movement, if you have the room to do so. A lot of the time you will be moving while reloading which saves time if done efficiently. You can practice that easily at home. Run from point  A to point B while changing mags. Also there will be times when it is advantageous to actually shoot while moving. Some stages will be better shot by running to a specific position and then shooting, some will be better shooting as you move. Set up a few targets and practice walking parallel to them, or coming forward towards them while getting a good sight picture and dry firing. 

Definitely will do a lot of movement. For me, it’s the most important reason to dryfire. I can burn 600 to 800 calories in one long session. And if you have a challenging set of timed drills it’s a lot of fun. Why spend all your time in a gym when you can be doing something you love. I’ve slacked off for the last year or two due to a new job, but before that I was in the best shape of my life.
 

To those out there that could use a little more exercise... Take some of that money you’re not spending on ammo and buy a Polar H10 heart rate monitor and practice some dryfire with movement. I do it in a two car garage.

[Tuukka]

With regards to dry fire training in general in rifles.

 

I have had the Mantis Blackbeard on loan for a while now ( the kit that replaces the AR BCG with an auto reset training bolt )

 

It is a very useful tool for dry fire practice. Easy to bring to the range also to run some reps before going live.

 

This one is the non laser version and I am also looking at getting the visible laser version and some laser targets for longer distance etc. Why visible, I dont like it but cell phone target apps dont work with IR what I understand.

 

But in any case the Blackbeard brings a lot for a reasonable cost and is something that I was heavily looking into some time ago.  Works pretty well and a good investment even with regular rifle ammo prices, not to mentioned what you guys are looking at now..

[Bad_Karma]

Not sure if you are still looking for dry fire drills, but Joe Farewell recently came out with his 3-gun specific program. I can’t attest to the quality or value, but it’s the only one I’ve seen to date that isn’t oriented towards USPSA. 
 

https://dryfiremastery.com/p/multi-gun-dryfire-mastery

[Just4FunLP]

6 hours ago, Bad_Karma said:

Not sure if you are still looking for dry fire drills, but Joe Farewell recently came out with his 3-gun specific program. I can’t attest to the quality or value, but it’s the only one I’ve seen to date that isn’t oriented towards USPSA. 
 

https://dryfiremastery.com/p/multi-gun-dryfire-mastery

Thanks, that looks greatly!

[Bad_Karma]

On 6/17/2021 at 4:50 PM, Just4FunLP said:

Thanks, that looks greatly!

Did you end up purchasing?  If so, wondering what you think of it so far?

[Just4FunLP]

33 minutes ago, Bad_Karma said:

Did you end up purchasing?  If so, wondering what you think of it so far?

I did. I've been shooting pistol for a while, so I didn't get much out of the first videos. But, I must say it is good to stop and focus a bit on the basics. It's good material. I got to the shotgun vid and had to stop while I waited for my equipment to arrive. I tried doing quad loads on my unmodified M3K and found it to be extremely frustrating, so Saturday morning I got up and removed a lot of material from the loading port. It made all the difference in the world. On Sunday I finally got around to mounting my Invictus 12 round shell caddy to my belt. Previously I was picking up the stacked dummy rounds from a table, but grabbing them from the shell caddy also makes a huge difference. I  need a lot of practice, but at least I know I'll to figure out the quad loads. Before I hacked out my loading port I didn't think I'd ever me able to get it. Long story short, I haven't spent enough time on the training videos. I'm also getting my rifle reloading system up and running, so that's taking a lot of time as well. I'll get back on it soon.  I have found a lot of great resources on YouTube as well.  Here's a photo of my gun smithery...  

[Bad_Karma]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:37 PM, Just4FunLP said:

I did. I've been shooting pistol for a while, so I didn't get much out of the first videos. But, I must say it is good to stop and focus a bit on the basics. It's good material. I got to the shotgun vid and had to stop while I waited for my equipment to arrive. I tried doing quad loads on my unmodified M3K and found it to be extremely frustrating, so Saturday morning I got up and removed a lot of material from the loading port. It made all the difference in the world. On Sunday I finally got around to mounting my Invictus 12 round shell caddy to my belt. Previously I was picking up the stacked dummy rounds from a table, but grabbing them from the shell caddy also makes a huge difference. I  need a lot of practice, but at least I know I'll to figure out the quad loads. Before I hacked out my loading port I didn't think I'd ever me able to get it. Long story short, I haven't spent enough time on the training videos. I'm also getting my rifle reloading system up and running, so that's taking a lot of time as well. I'll get back on it soon.  I have found a lot of great resources on YouTube as well.  Here's a photo of my gun smithery...  

That looks good to me, especially for a diy job. 
 

I think I’ll spring for the dry fire as well. Joe seams to put out pretty solid content on Instagram.