P10C: Need Mags for Carry Optics

[Smitty79]

I have a P10C, with a DPP, that I bought for carry, but want to use as back up for my Shadow in Carry Optics.   I want to build 2 23 round mags.   It's not clear to me what the right mag tube is.

 

I think I need the standard CZC 10 coil spring and follower and this base pad: https://czcustom.com/p09-ext-base-pad-140mm-flush-fit.html

 

I've seen lots of posts about magazine compatibility for the P10 series.   Is this the right mag for the P10C for extended capacity?

 

https://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-p09-duty-9mm-19-rd-factory-magazine-11620-red-follower-p-1405.html?zenid=qh6q74fe1krcn056gtaoeeqrj1

[eerw]

You want this magazine

http://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-p10-f-reverse-9mm-19-rd-factory-magazine-11440-p-2042.html

 

P10F magazine

Edited March 24, 2019 by eerw

[Superpipe9]

1 hour ago, eerw said:

You want this magazine

http://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-p10-f-reverse-9mm-19-rd-factory-magazine-11440-p-2042.html

 

P10F magazine

Stuart is that mag the same as the new PO9 mag?

[Czgunsalot]

30 minutes ago, Superpipe9 said:

Stuart is that mag the same as the new PO9 mag?

Their the same body tube and have the extra center cut for the p10c.

i think current production of p07-9-10 s c f all have to same cut so they are compatible.

[DesertTortoise]

This gets you to 21 for $35

 

http://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/cz-p09-9mm-21-rd-magazine-with-polymer-2-adapter-cz-11623-p-1705.html

 

[eerw]

What you have to be aware of.

 

p09 lower side cut out.

p10c with ambi mag catch- center notch

p10 F, P10 c, P10S with reversible mag catch- has second notch on side.

unless you know what looking for. Just go for the P10 listings

[GeneBray]

A comments not on the mags but on USPS CO rules (which I am presuming you are referencing) and the need for a backup pistol.  Using a P10C to replace a Shadow (I wish you had stated the exact Shadow model since there are numerous Shadows on the Production gun list).  First, I believe the  USPSA rules are not very specific regarding a substitute firearms and therefore much of the decision is the desecration of the RM.  Not that, that is bad, but lack of specific guidance means there is a good chance for different rulings from different RMs under the same set of circumstances.

 

Now, lets look at the rules:

 

"5.1.7.1. The substitute firearm satisfies the requirements of the relevant Division."

 

For the sake of this discussion, I will assume you meticulously and ausiduously conformed to USPSA CO equipment rules and therefore both pistols are rules 100% compliant.

 

"5.1.7.2. In using the substitute firearm the competitor will not gain a competitive advantage."

 

This is where there could be problems.  Assume you start the match with the Shadow, and you want to move to the P10C.  Is there a competitive advantage?  Some would say no because trigger of the Shadow is DA/SA and is generally assumed to better than a striker fired pistol.  The weight range for Production legal Shadows range from 38 to 47 oz.  The weight of a P10C is 26 oz. -- a range of 3/4 lb. to 1 lb. 5 oz. difference.  Does a lighter pistol provide a competitive advantage?  This is where the decision can and probably does vary RM to RM based on their experience, understanding of the rules, and their understanding and beliefs as to what constitutes a competitive advantage.  Doubt that arguments over whether a lighter pistol offers a competitive advantage or not will be settled in either of our lifetimes.  But, it is a good reason to drink beer and argue the point.

 

Now, let's assume the converse.  You decide to shoot the P10C and it breaks, and you wish to switch to the Shadow.  Almost without a doubt, a RM who understands the rules and follows them, would rule the Shadow has a competitive advantage.  DA/SA over striker fired, heavier firearm so less perceived recoil,  and probably more more barrel heavy which would aid in muzzle flip.

 

The above is hypothetical.  Now, let's talk practical.

 

A Level I match.  Some clubs would let you change regardless of which pistol you start with.  A local match, nothing riding on it so no harm, no foul.  Is that the right call?  I my opinion no, but not naive to think it doesn't happen.  USPSA does not say interpret the rules one way for a local match versus a higher level match.  USPSA says and expects the rules to be applied uniformly at all levels. Move to Level II or III and the more likely you are see the rules enforced and then we are back to the first part of the discussion and the subjectivity of what constitutes a competitive advantage when comparing two firearms both rules compliant for the declared division.

 

Without a better definition of, or examples of competitive advantage, the application of the rule is more subjective which loops right back to the comments on 5.1.7.2.

 

Hope this gives you some food for thought as to what to used for a backup pistol and some potential problem areas if you are unfortunate enough to have to change to a backup during a match.

 

 

 

 

[Smitty79]

17 minutes ago, GeneBray said:

A comments not on the mags but on USPS CO rules (which I am presuming you are referencing) and the need for a backup pistol.  Using a P10C to replace a Shadow (I wish you had stated the exact Shadow model since there are numerous Shadows on the Production gun list).  First, I believe the  USPSA rules are not very specific regarding a substitute firearms and therefore much of the decision is the desecration of the RM.  Not that, that is bad, but lack of specific guidance means there is a good chance for different rulings from different RMs under the same set of circumstances.

 

Now, lets look at the rules:

 

"5.1.7.1. The substitute firearm satisfies the requirements of the relevant Division."

 

For the sake of this discussion, I will assume you meticulously and ausiduously conformed to USPSA CO equipment rules and therefore both pistols are rules 100% compliant.

 

"5.1.7.2. In using the substitute firearm the competitor will not gain a competitive advantage."

 

This is where there could be problems.  Assume you start the match with the Shadow, and you want to move to the P10C.  Is there a competitive advantage?  Some would say no because trigger of the Shadow is DA/SA and is generally assumed to better than a striker fired pistol.  The weight range for Production legal Shadows range from 38 to 47 oz.  The weight of a P10C is 26 oz. -- a range of 3/4 lb. to 1 lb. 5 oz. difference.  Does a lighter pistol provide a competitive advantage?  This is where the decision can and probably does vary RM to RM based on their experience, understanding of the rules, and their understanding and beliefs as to what constitutes a competitive advantage.  Doubt that arguments over whether a lighter pistol offers a competitive advantage or not will be settled in either of our lifetimes.  But, it is a good reason to drink beer and argue the point.

 

Now, let's assume the converse.  You decide to shoot the P10C and it breaks, and you wish to switch to the Shadow.  Almost without a doubt, a RM who understands the rules and follows them, would rule the Shadow has a competitive advantage.  DA/SA over striker fired, heavier firearm so less perceived recoil,  and probably more more barrel heavy which would aid in muzzle flip.

 

The above is hypothetical.  Now, let's talk practical.

 

A Level I match.  Some clubs would let you change regardless of which pistol you start with.  A local match, nothing riding on it so no harm, no foul.  Is that the right call?  I my opinion no, but not naive to think it doesn't happen.  USPSA does not say interpret the rules one way for a local match versus a higher level match.  USPSA says and expects the rules to be applied uniformly at all levels. Move to Level II or III and the more likely you are see the rules enforced and then we are back to the first part of the discussion and the subjectivity of what constitutes a competitive advantage when comparing two firearms both rules compliant for the declared division.

 

Without a better definition of, or examples of competitive advantage, the application of the rule is more subjective which loops right back to the comments on 5.1.7.2.

 

Hope this gives you some food for thought as to what to used for a backup pistol and some potential problem areas if you are unfortunate enough to have to change to a backup during a match.

 

 

 

 

I think the competitive advantage would kick in only of one gun was thought be good one one kind of stage and the other was better on another kind.   I'm not concerned.   As the P10's primary purpose is as a carry gun, I am leaving the trigger stock.   The Shadow, a 91030, is better on any stage, with the possible exception of a draw to one shot.

[GeneBray]

3 minutes ago, Smitty79 said:

I think the competitive advantage would kick in only of one gun was thought be good one one kind of stage and the other was better on another kind.   I'm not concerned.   As the P10's primary purpose is as a carry gun, I am leaving the trigger stock.   The Shadow, a 91030, is better on any stage, with the possible exception of a draw to one shot.

Ergo, my comment about subjectivity.....as competitors our opinion is not the one that matters, the RMs decision is what counts unless you arbitrate. I know GMs, who earned the classification through hard work, skill, and only shooting classifiers once and never practicing one prior to a match, who think a heavier pistol helps with shot-to-shot control on a target but find a lighter pistol gives them quicker and more controlled transitions.  And, that is another of those discussions which will never be answered, but is another good reason for beer and discuss.

[MarkMcNeely]

I'm also looking for mags for p10c for CO, but I'm worried about maybe over inserting a p09 mag. Are there any extensions for p10c/p07 length mags to get to 140? 

(I understand with their custom 10 coil kit or the Grams 11 coil 23 rounds of 9mm should be expected in a 140mm mag)

 

1)

I've seen CZC has +4 extension, but I'm not sure what overall length that is (probably significantly short) SKU: 10237

They have +1 extension for the p09 mag which fills the space up to the p10c grip, but again no length specified. SKU: 1001100

They have the 140 length p09 extension but don't say how many + rounds it gives (as some kind of rough comparison to the above)

Then there are +5 extensions from places like Shield Arms and True Precision (but again no length listed) https://shieldarms.com/cz-p10-c-magazine-extension 

 

I own 2 p10c mags, so I'd like to at least use them instead of buying complete p09 mags. 

 

Maybe the best option is to grab a Springer + Grams pack for my p09 mag, start the match with it in the gun for 23+1, then have my p10c mags with the +5s so 21ish with follower?

 

2)

What follower does better between the Grams 11 coil and follower kit vs the CZC 10 coil and follower?

I've heard the CZC doesn't lock back but heard nothing either way about the Grams kit.

 

As an aside, I believe the p09 mag with the factory +2 extension is over the allowed length for CO because of its shape.

[MarilynMonbro]

I saw a picture with the p10c and shield extension fitting in the magazine box (don't know what it's called). The OP was using a full size mag +1 has his starting mag and the p10c mags were on the belt

 

Thanks to a Black Friday deal post by Earl Keese I picked up 3 Shield Arms +5 extensions for the less expensive 15 round P-10C mags that retro-fit perfectly in my 2016/2017 P-07's. This gives 20+1 with room to spare in the 'official' EGW 141.25mm mag gauge for USPSA & IDPA CARRY-OPTICS.  Well made and easy to install

 

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