dtx Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Hi! I live in California, and I'm looking for a rifle to use for 3 gun competitions. I have a Bushmaster AR, but since I can never ever get another one, I can't bring myself to subject it to the torture of competition. Because I'm a total newbie to 3 gunning, I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive rifle I can have a little fun with and that I don't have to freak out over if it gets dropped in the dirt. I've found a couple of choices, the most prominent ones being the Mini 14 and the Kel-Tec CA compliant version of their SU carbine. I've handled Minis, and I really don't care for them. I'd love to get something like the Robinson M96 CA legal rifle, but I'm not in a position to spend $1,600.00 right now. I see a few advantages to the Kel-Tec: - It takes AR mags. I have a bunch of 30 round thermolds that I stockpiled just before the ban. - It weighs less than 5 pounds. - I've heard, but have not experienced first hand, that it is better out of the box than the Mini. - It comes with a rail. - Holding 2 mags in the stock keeps some clutter off my belt. Anyone have experience with these? I could imagine they might show up sometimes at CA matches. I'll probably throw a Simmons 1.5-5x20 Pro-Diamond on there and call it a day. If there are some easy mods to help with the trigger or accuracy, I would certainly consider them. Any advice/experiences/cautions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Use the Bushy, it's not that special, really! The torture of competition ain't gonna hurt it one bit ;-) You can replace pretty much every part on it and the receiver ain't gonna wear out (it's the only part you can't buy). Forget about anything but an AR if you already have an AR. Nothing else will even come close, ever! -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 a Big +1. Otherwise you're spending big bucks to get something as accurate, but never as useful. Uppers are easy to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Like they said...use the AR. I tried my friend's SU16 and honestly, I prefer the Mini-14. The Kel-Tec's rail, in my opinion might not be solid enough to retain zero. I've seen Mini-14s in action and they shoot very well. Only thing I like about the SU16 is its ability to use AR mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I've been meaning to ask the same question as dtx, and I DON"T currently have an AR . Some shooters in my club recommended the Mini-14, but I have also heard that their barrels are too thin to take much abuse. A local gunstore employee mentioned that the Springfield M1A SOCOM II is a popular choice, but she may have been "upselling," as that rifle is twice as expensive as a mini-14. Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 M1 Carbine. It makes minor, has a reasonable bullet trajectory compared to a 9mm carbine and they are cheaper than most other options. I saw a guy make all his hits on MGM flash targets right on out to 275 yards at a match last year using the iron sights. On short courses it would rock the house. Of course you are gonnahafta' get "real" mags for anything you get anyway, right ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Please forgive my ignorance, but - Who makes it? (couldn't find it on Springfield's site) - Are they still making it? - Is it CA legal? Thanks for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Mini-14 is fine, the accuracy however, sucks as it comes from the factory. Think 4-5" groups at 100yds Most people that shoot mini's have barrel work done somewhere (Accuracy Systems, etc.), or at least have a gunsmith work on it. I have a .900 bull barrel on mine, very accurate, sub MOA no problem. This also makes the Mini more expensive than many (most?) of the options available to the rest of the country. Magazines are the hardest thing to get right. Your old PMI and Factory mags are your best options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 M1 Carbine is CA legal and can be bought here: http://www.impactguns.com/store/AOM120.html They can be found surplus for a lot less if you hunt around. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtx Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Thanks a lot for all the advice. I guess I will bring the AR out of hiding. I may still pick up a Kel-Tec at some point, because I have a sinking feeling pretty soon all semi-automatic rifles will be unavailable for purchase here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 The M1 carbine is no great shakes at accuracy either, but as with the mini, you can get 2-3 MOA with some care in most cases and that will suffice, in most cases. Besides, the M1 carbine is cool, the mini isn't ;-) If you get an M1A type rifle, you are then moving into Heavy Metal/He Man territory as the full on .308 caliber is not a competitive choice in the regular 3 gun divisions over .223 for many reasons, recoil management in fast stuff being just one of the numerous drawbacks the .308 incurs. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Geoff, the Mini is cool... kind of like a Pacer or a Gremlin, type of cool. And for far targets 300-400yds, the worked over Mini can still take those.. A carbine, it'd probably be better to take the miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 I had an AMC Pacer as a rental car once, but cool wasn't the term my addled brain was coming up with ;-) So true about anything beyond about 250 with the carbine. I really think I would either give up 3 gun, or move to HM division and an M1A, before I would ever give up AR's and shoot a mini. I'm sorry, but I cannot stand them at all and have no interest in hacking the platform. But you are correct in that it is probably the only real platform available that can even hang with the AR across the course. I just can't hang with them ;-/ -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtx Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 I don't like the controls on the Mini, that's my main objection to them. A close second is that fact that the mods you need quickly begin costing 2 or 3 times as much as the rifle itself. It's like the kids around here who put $15,000 into fixing up a 1997 Honda Civic. Assuming the Caliban went away tomorrow I'd buy another Bushmaster AR, a PTR-91, and a WASR-10 on the very first day I could. The Mini or the Kel-Tec wouldn't be on the list at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Got another question: can the M1 Carbine accept optics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 With modifications, anything will accept optics. It is a great iron dawg though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Got another question: can the M1 Carbine accept optics? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You ask and you shall recieve; ULTIMAK M1 CARBINE M6-B FORWARD OPTIC MOUNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 P99, if you got time, show up on Saturday for the rifle only match at SVSC. Most non-AR people will be shooting either Mini-14 or M14/M1A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Scooter, don't know if I'll be able to swing that; I'm taking the family to the state fair on Saturday, and the SDPS match on Sunday. Thanks for the suggestion though. Thanks again George, and stingerjg. This forum rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I'll ask Randy to bring his Mini on Sunday since he likes showing off his new toy. I'll bring my M1A if you want to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Scooter, I went to a shop that had the su-16ca, and tested out the mag release button. I was able to reach it without a problem. It did feel very light though, almost too light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Just got a chance to handle a Keltec at a gunshop. I was told that they were able to get 1.5 - 2 MOA with WW ball at 100 yards. I was also told that reliability was 100% (of course it is, yeah!!). My observations: - The fore end was cheezy and could be squeezed and bent around (flimsy plastic sleeve), but did not seem to effect bbl and gas system. - Sights were rudimentary, but it had a flat top rail so that was not an issue in the long run. - The safety cannot be manipulated while in a firing grip PERIOD - The trigger makes the DA pull on my SIG P-226 seem like a JP - The mag release was easy to reach and was a lot like an AR ergonomically - The bbl was 1:9 and pencil thin - It uses standard AR mags and the ones I tried dropped free I was told a heavy bbl version was available and that it was also 1:9 twist At $495 it seemed like it could be made into a viable CA carbine with a bit of work ;-) The AR mag thing makes it a real contender in my book. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Doesn't the foreend double as a bipod? If so the gun would be in Open Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 From what I've seen the Keltec carbine is just like their pistols. They work for lite use, but I think one could be shot to death real easy. Might be a canadiate for something to throw in the trunk of the car just in case.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now