Ron Ankeny Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Our club president is also a Glock dealer. He was showing me a new Glock flashlight/laser sight combination. He slipped it on a Glock and then on an XD. He was aiming at a spot on the back wall 18 yards from the gun counter. Of course I had to try it to see if my wobble zone has held up through the years (former PPC and bullseye shooter). To my delight, my wobble zone is as good now as it ever was. In short, the laser dot has very little perceptible movement. This really drives home what we already know. The physical act of holding the gun still enough to nail the A box at typical IPSC distances is a very simplistic task. Instead of worrying about the wobble, most of us need to revisit the issue of fire control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 We really notice this weak hand don't we. I have fun in the meeting room at work drawing a 1" circle on the board and challenging co-workers to keep the laser pointer's dot within the circle. **It seems I misread your post. You're saying the "wobble" is a very small part of why we are inaccurate. It's the trigger and pre & post-recoil cntl that's more important. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Ron, Yes! One of my favorite all time catch phrases - Aiming isn't the hard part. Or, specifically in this case - Holding isn't the hard part. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 What's a wobble zone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Flex: In the precision shooting sports the "wobble zone" is your "hold". It's the amount of wobble or weaving around you do while aiming. For instance, if you have a laser beam projected on a target surface at say 20 yards and the beam wobbles around an area of perhaps 4 inches in diameter, your hold or wobble zone is 4 inches at 20 yards. Some folks have an amazingly small "hold". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Aiming isn't the hard part. Releasing the shot without disturbing your hold, is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted August 17, 2005 Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 Aiming isn't the hard part. Releasing the shot without disturbing your hold, is. Yeppers, and I guess that's the whole point of my post. I know I have an amazing "hold". In fact, I stopped sighting handguns in off of a bench years ago. When I establish the sight picture, then shift my entire being into fire control, I generally walk off with top honors (PPC). I know I can hit the A zone of an IPSC target at 50 yards until I am ankle deep in brass. However, in my quest for speed (IPSC), I too often sacrifice my vision to cheat the clock and my fire control goes right in the toilet. I suppose this little thread has more value to a "crossover" shooter than to folks who cut their teeth on IPSC. To this day, I can "think the trigger off" without disturbing the alignment. If I could just figure out how to gently slap the trigger straight back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Maaaaannn...I ain't got time to stand around and wobble. I might have to think some at that trigger control stuff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Ron, I am glad you brought this up. And, I am glad that Brian is here on the thread too. Brian, TGO is often said to talk quite a bit about trigger control with his students (I think he mentions it with some importance on his website as well). Other than that, trigger control talk doesn't seem to get much traction? I don't really know if I have a question. It does seem like it is any important topic....that we don't talk about much. Are we missing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I have a terrible wobble zone. Is there any practice routine I can do to minimize it? How much a factor is gun weight? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 My wobble zone looks like a 5 year old amped up on meth scribbling on a huge piece of construction paper. My tirck is to mash the heck out of the trigger whenever I see brown behind the front sight. It's better to be like Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 My wobble zone looks like a 5 year old amped up on meth scribbling on a huge piece of construction paper.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I get better groups shooting 1 sec splits than try to refine the sight pic and use more time. My wobble actually gets worse from the bench . Aside from the target, I'm missing something else, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 I think most IPSC shooters don't give trigger control a whole lot of thought. Anyhow, that's compared to shooters from the accuracy oriented shooting sports. How many really tough Type 5 shots do we see in a normal course of fire anyway? When we get right down to it, we all know it's tough to hit the target if we jerk, flinch, and yank on the trigger. Even the informal plinker will discover the trigger must be manipulated in a fashion that will not disturb the sight alignment. Eventually, pulling the trigger becomes an automatic and almost subconsious by- product of visual inputs. See the sights in alignment and pull the trigger. Doing it at speed is where problems arise. Sometimes I wonder if my screw ups are because I am physically manipulating the trigger before I should, then I get all herky jerky. It's like reaching for a hot skillet handle on the stove. At the last minute you realize you are about to get burned so you pull back but it's too late and you grab the handle anyway. Ouch. I have been revisiting the issue of fire control because I am experiencing some issues. I shot the El Strong and Weak Hand El Pres and I called some pretty miserable shots (weak handed) and I know I was not breaking the shot cleanly. I was mashing the trigger and the faster I went the more I stuck my finger through the trigger guard. I have been shooting a lot of steel lately and I have had no less than a dozen "negligent discharges". That is, I torched the round off long before I was "ready". In every instance, the bullet hit the plate. I was suprised the shot broke and amazed I got the hit. I am still pondering what was happening. I have no idea if I was prepping the trigger and the gun discharged, or if I really pulled the trigger because of a subconsious reaction to seeing the sights in alignment. It's weird. All I know for sure is the gun was on target and ready to go in about half the time I thought possible. Must be a lesson in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iweiny Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Although I know that 90% of my accuracy problems are trigger related; I have a pretty bad "wobble zone" when I start to grip too hard. I find I get tired and start to get a real death grip and the sights are all over the place. Add jerking the trigger... and you have some pretty bad PPC scores. I don't know but I think IPSC actually helps me with the wobble as I think I am more relaxed in my grip? Anyway, I have been just holding the gun outstretched, both strong and week hand. I just want to get used to holding the gun steady. I don't even worry about the trigger sometimes, just hold the gun out there. Finaly,I picked up one of these last night: http://www.gripmaster.net/gripmaster/ They actually have some exercises for pistol shooters. Has anyone else seen these/used these? Ira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I have been thinking about this for awhile now. I posted several months ago asking the question for open shooters about how much the dot moved during dryfire. I noticed for me the dot moved downward during dryfire. I knew this couldn't be good. I worked on it but without really knowing the proper way to do it. So I ask..........What is proper trigger control. For an open class shooter I would think if I have done everything correctly the dot shouldn't move except for the wobble zone. The trigger pull shouldn't affect the dot. If I'm pulling to much or using to much pressure it would cause the dot to drop down I'm assuming. Dot moving left of right as a result of the trigger pull would also be the same. Also what should happen during dryfire??? for an open shooter. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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