Reshoots At Nationals

[Flexmoney]

As an RO, I have always agreed with Jay's position on this. (I think BDH and I have talked about this before.)

However, as a shooter at this year's Nationals...it happened to me. They put my score down on somebody else's score sheet.

This was a stage that I had a big jammed in...followed up by rushing into an edge hit on a NS.

By my calculations, I would have been in 6th place (overall) instead of 10th in Production. So...yeah...a reshoot would have been great. In the end, they were able to figure out my score. I was good with that...I got what I earned.

I guess I am on the fence here. As a shooter, I want to take what I earn. As an RO, I would likely be inclined to give/award/order(?) the reshoot.

??

[BDH]

BDH,

While I am never going to disagree with an Imperial stormtrooper, Ha!,  Carlos is being a nice guy if he accepted your way of scoring using a previous scoresheet.

The rule states " and it is not obvious" which hits are whose, it is a reshoot. Now I hate to award reshoots more than you can really know. I am now up to 10 shooters who have DQ'ed on reshoots I have awarded, but using the scoresheet of the previous shooter is not a viable alternative. What if the stats lady has just come by, does that shooter get a reshoot where another would not? How fair is that? Each shooters COF is a individual event. It has to be taken on its own merit.

My feeling is you have to make the call based on what is on the target, not scoresheets, not a falible memory, but what is on the target. If I can not make a fair call based on the target, the shooter is awarded a reshoot. It's the RO responsiblity to make sure the targets are patched. the shooter should not be penalized because we or our crews failed to do our jobs.

Just my 2 pence.

Jay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jay, as always I appreciate your insight and wisdom, and in fact, the main reason I posted this was to see if I would get any push-back from the experts up here.

I looked at it this way... 'if' we could determine an accurate score, and 'if' the competitor agreed with the logic in getting to that score, why would we not score it? The stats runner had not come by, so we did have the previous shooter's scoresheet... when I was on the clipboard, I was consistent throughout the match with where I recorded which target on the scoresheet, so I knew we were comparing target Tx against target Tx... and I asked the competitor if he agreed with our logic, which he did.

What I am trying to say is we were 100% certain that we did determine an 'accurate score' and the competitor agreed with the logic we used to get to it. We certainly were not trying to keep him from a reshoot, and in fact, most of us know that reshoots generally do not go well. Where I thought we could be questioned, was in the following two areas...

First, since the competitor in question was not looking over my shoulder as I was writing down the the previous competitors scores, he was taking me on my word that the target on the previous scoresheet, was the target in question from his run.

Second, since the competitor in question was on deck during the previous run (probably concentrating on his run and not what the current shooter was doing), he was taking me on my word that the previous competitor fired two rounds at that target.

Certainly if he had questioned either of these points, then I would have given the reshoot since we could not have determined an accurate score. So based on the fact that both the range staff and competitor all agreed that we had an accurate score, are you saying that we should have forced a reshoot on the competitor in this case? Please don't take this wrong, as you certainly raised valid points, but forcing a reshoot here just doesn't seem right to me...

Is this situation (ie. you can never use a previous scoresheet) one of those zillion little unwritten rules or guidelines that take decades of match experience to pick up on? If so, I'd better take note, because right now, I'm not sure that I would have done anything different here...

[Alan Meek]

Brian,

Your process emphasizes the consistency and importance in maintaining consistency in scoring the stage. If the RO make the use of consistency in the running of each an every stage the by product is a Fair and Equal event for all. I do not see anything wrong with the process that you used to accurately score the competitor, as you said if the competitor did not agree with your process, he would have received a reshoot. To me the shooter agreeing with the process that you used is no different than the competitor and RO both signing the scoresheet. When we sign scoresheets does that not signify that both the Competitor and RO agree that the information on the score sheet is accurate.

Alan

[Rob Boudrie]

If the competitor does not agree that the score can be accurately determined, it is the competitors right to assert that it is not, in fact, possible to determine an accurate score. Since this is a "scoring call", it would seem to me that it would fall under the jurisdiction of the RM and not the arbitration committee if the competitor disagreed, however, the arbitration committee could decide that.

Looking at the rules, I do not see any basis for giving the competitor a reshoot if an accurate score can be determined as "consent" is not required to establish accuracy or validity.