ErikW Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I had previously chronographed a Montana Gold 180 FMJ with Ramshot Competition at 168 power factor. From the same jug of Competition, same charge, same brass, same primers, same OAL, but with a Preciscion Delta 180 FMJ, I got 159 PF today. Previously it was 65 degrees F and today it was 95 F. So I would expect faster velocities today. Is Ramshot competition reverse-temperature sensitive? Is the Precision Delta jacket material incredibly slow? I expected its copper-ish gilding to produce faster velocities than the MG brass-like gilding. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Delta Foxtrot Kiowa, did you check bullet dia. and length.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Hemphill Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Erik, When I was playing with competition, it stayed pretty consistant over some serious temprature extremes. I just looked at my data and it bounced aroud +/- 2 pf regardless of temprature and altitude. I would think that the PD bullets are shorter, and not generating enough pressure to achieve the same velocities. I notice the same thing when switching from one bullet to another of similar shape and type. I did note that competition was sensitive to OAL or more precisely initial case volume. At 1.185" I got 175 pf and at 1.200" I got 170 pf. If you have any more questions, drop me an e-mail or catch up with me at WNPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 erik my load shot 173 power factor with montana gold bullets and 170 with the precision deltas. titegroup was the powder yes the bullets chronoed slower in MY gun than the JHP MG bullets, but it appears they have more bearing surface too. 170 is still major and the load is UBER accurate. might be a combo of bullet and powder that caused that much velocity drop....as i had some, but not as much as you. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 I regret loading up all my N320 for accuracy and velocity comparison. The P-Deltas shoot OK over Competition, but not N320-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. I measured the length of the PD 180 FMJ (.610") and the MG 180 CMJ (.592"). With a loaded cartridge, the PD bullet sits lower in the case. I also measured the PD diameter, albeit with calipers not a mic. A hair over .400". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 I chronographed the Armscor 180s over Ramshot Competition, everything the same... 156 PF. It's not the Precision Delta bullets. 5/15, 65 F, MG 180: 168 PF 7/21, 95 F, PD 180: 159 PF 7/27, 82 F, AP 180: 156 PF F U B A R ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.e.t. Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Eric, Could you be fighting some humidity issues? I have found both Competition and Titegroup to be very consistent. But I do agree that Competition was affected by seating depth much more so than Titegroup. But the added accuracy I get from Competition is worth the hassle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 haha, humidity, that's a good one... today's weather detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 If all of the components are the same across the tests and the bullets are the only thing changing, then could it be the exposed lead base that the 2 slow bullets have????? The MG are CMJ's which have a similar type of base to a JHP. When I switched to CMJ's from FMJ's I got about 2 PF more so I backed my load back .3g (N320). I can't imagine the powder is burning that much of the lead base to have the velocity suffer as much as you're seeing. 10PF???? No f***in' clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Hemphill Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Erik, This is the only time I have heard of Montana Golds being faster than a conventional jacked bullet of similar design. When I tried Zero and Sierra bullets they were always 2-5 pf higher than the MG. About the only thing I can think of is the PD bullets have a larger diameter an maybe larger bearing surface than the MG and are generating more friction in the bore. I know that in comparing .355 and .356 bullets in my super I lost about 3 pf with the larger diameter all other things being the same. Maybe 40aet is right, and the base is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Erik, Whenever I Chrono I bring a reference gun and ammo. I use my plain Jane stock Buckmark .22 and CCI Mini-Mag ammo. I bought a brick of ammo just for checking the Chrono. As soon as I set up the Chrono I run 10 rounds of the .22 and compare with the last time I Chrono'd. If the Chrono won't read the .22 because of sun, etc... I don't waste my test ammo. Once I get the Chrono reading OK with the .22 ammo then I'm in business. Could be you're having Chrono problems and not powder/bullet problems. Nolan Skilled, but otherwise unremarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.e.t. Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 haha, humidity, that's a good one... Sorry for the foot in mouth. Living in the midwest and just coming through the Nat's I sometimes forget how the other half lives....... I have never used the M/G bullet but have some on the shelf. Looking forward to checking my results against yours..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 I just re-chronographed everything I have with Ramshot Competition. They all came in around 900 fps or lower. The load that had previously chronographed at 168 made 164. My N320 baseline loads were a little warm. Must've been a bad chrono voodoo day when I first chronographed the Ramshot Competition. Live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Erik- How did you like the competition Vs. N320. I've been using N320 for 4 years and have not been happy with some of the other powders that I've tried. The 2 powders are next to each other on the burn chart (if that means anything). I may try the Precision Bullets (Molly) with the Competition after I run out of MG's. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 Well I thought Comp. was softer than N320, but that may have been because it was shooting 100 fps slower! And I don't think it's as accurate, but decent enough. And not as clean. But it wins on price, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 is competition roughly the same stuff as WST?? thank god i was running 185 precisions at A4, othewise i would have been minor with 180s accuracy with the WST was all over the place, and its dirtier than titegroup. right now, its titegroup and PD 180s...clean, relatively soft and really accurate. at the nationals my rounds chronoed 943, 944, 947 with mixed brass. bullet weighed in at 180.7 miked at .4005 on starrett micrcometer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I guess if your 10pf lower, it would feel softer than your major load. In Competition Vs. N320: If the Comp. is.... Not as soft Not as clean Not as accurate It is cheaper I like the cheaper part! If you keep with it and work up a major load, please let me know what you think. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Kirk, I have some RS Comp loaded in 180 and 200's. I really like Comp - it's quiet, very clean, and the gun doesn't seem as "jumpy" as with 320. I need some more trigger time with it, but for now I actually like it better that TG and 320. Let me know if you want to meet at Ike's or Continental to try some. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Let me know if you want to meet at Ike's or Continental to try some. That's awesome. I'd like to try both. I'll probably be at Continental on Thursday for lunch, and I'm already registered for Ike's this month. but for now I actually like it better that TG and 320. The quest for the perfect limited load continues. Thanks Scott! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 I bumped the charge of Competition .4 gr and chronographed today. 890-957 fps. Half Minor, half Major. Some felt barky, some felt squibby. Accuracy was OK. I'm starting to think Competition isn't good for .40S&W Major with long-OAL 180 gr jacketed. Any chance things will improve at a lower OAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott G Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Wow, that's strange. I've had really good luck so far with it. I'm getting 173 PF with 4.9 at 1.19 oal, with single digit std deviations over the chrono. Accuracy is good enough for 25 yd head shots with confidence. This is with a Zero 180 jhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Hemphill Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Erik, You must be cursed, or have a bad batch of powder. I got results that were as consistant as N320 with Competition, at long OAL 1.185-1.230" with 180 and 200 gr bullets both cast and jacketed. I think the most I had in velocity spread over 20 rounds was like 50 or 60 fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I've used Zero 180JHP + competition @1.165 OAL for the last year. Other than the price I can't tell the difference between it and the N320 I was using before. It was very consistant and chroned the same at the FL Open and the area 6 match. It makes the end of my slide and frame dirty, but so did the N320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 E, I wonder if your dies aren't worn out or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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