Carlock Shuffle

[Overkill]

Anybody else playing with thiis loading method?

I just spent about an hour in the garage practicing it with a par timer (no live fire since I'm in the garage!)

My COF is starting with gun mounted to sholder, chamber empty, pointed in gun-safe as back stop, on siignal, load 8 and remount the gun, and point into safe again.

When I first started I was taking about 2sec per round; 15-16sec for 8. After an hour of practice I got it down to about 10seconds for 8. Once or twice I got 8 in 8 seconds but I'm very fumble prone at that speed. Over all that's pretty fast (for me) faster than what I was doing before.

Carlock must have huge hands. I cant quite manage the hold in the "step two" picture and I'm not exactly petite.

[EricW]

Shawn's hands aren't *much* larger than mine, and I have difficulty too. It really comes down to manual dexterity.

[George]

IIRC, Kurt Miller can shoot 1, stuff 4, then shoot 1 in under 3 seconds. That basically means you need to stuff about 2 shells per second to be on par.

The drill is on poppers at ten yards IIRC and requires a hit at each end.

No matter the method, that is a mark to strive for.

--

[EricW]

Shawn can shoot 1, load 8, shoot 1 in about 5.5 sec IIRC. Which is absolutely screaming, btw. The second key to going fast with the Carlock shuffle is getting your strong hand off the gun RIGHT NOW. I constantly struggle with leaving my strong hand on the gun while I pivot it. It's an absolute time-killer.

The first key in doing the shuffle is picking the shells of the belt. Put on your belt holder and practice just getting the shells out. If you mis-pick the shells, you might as well just chuck them on the ground and grab four more - it will be faster.

We need to be careful about making our benchmark the personal bests of those who've mastered the technique. Anybody that can break 1 shell per second overall bang to bang is doing very well on game day.

[George]

Shawn can shoot 1, load 8, shoot 1 in about 5.5 sec IIRC

And that is definitely screaming. I think Kurt is actually right around 2.6 - 2.7ish in reality which puts him and Shawn in a league of their own.

Me, I'm happy with just about one a second and max of two at a time in my hand when loading from a Choate tray. Any method that gets anywhere around one per second into the tube is about all us mere mortals can hope for ;-)

[Overkill]

The second key to going fast with the Carlock shuffle is getting your strong hand off the gun RIGHT NOW.  I constantly struggle with leaving my strong hand on the gun while I pivot it.  It's an absolute time-killer.

The first key in doing the shuffle is picking the shells of the belt. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That concept of "exploding" into the first move is a pretty common one. Kind of the same thing for a quick draw or a fast move out of a shooting positon. Seems like that initial spurt of urgency sets the pace for the rest of the sequence.

In terms of picking the shells.....do you end up with them in a nice flat line like in the picture? I kind of end up with a roughly curcular "bunch". I'm having a little trouble with the fact that the bunch is not consistenly arranged which throws off the consistency on the shuffle part.

[Overkill]

Shawn can shoot 1, load 8, shoot 1 in about 5.5 sec IIRC

Any method that gets anywhere around one per second into the tube is about all us mere mortals can hope for ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know I'd be pleased as punch with a reliable and consistent 8 in 8 sec reload that maybe included at least a couple halting steps in a direction vaguely consistent with the course of fire.

[Singlestack]

Has anybody figured out why he cut his Easy Loader down so far?

[Overkill]

Has anybody figured out why he cut his Easy Loader down so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd guess its for the same reason they invened low cut holsters..... shave a fraction of a second or two.

[smokshwn]

Overkill,

I have been practicing this for a little while and one of my first major epiphanies about the shell grab was that I couldn't get a reliable evolution UNLESS I grouped the shells into a circular shape in my hand. That gives me a little more dexterity out at the end of my fingers and thumb.

Take care Craig

BTW I was hitting sub 4's tonight at shoot 1, load 4, shoot 1 in dry fire practice. One more second to go

[Overkill]

Well if bunching is the hot ticket, I'm there.

So, I've you got a bunch of four, which part of the bunch do you start loadiing; the round near the base of your thumb, the one near the tiip of your index finger or the one inbetween?

I also find I tend to push the first round with my index finge, using my thumb to keep a grip on the other three shells, and then I push successive rounds with my thumb using curled finges to control the remaining rounds. .

[EricW]

I worked on this with Shawn one afternoon. The shells need to stay flat in your hand. The way he does it, he can use his thumb to stuff all the shells. Another key to the technique is to slide the next shell to be stuffed back across the easyloader gate before reversing direction to stuff it. That way, it's pre-aligned into the loading gate.

[Overkill]

The shells need to stay flat in your hand.  The way he does it, he can use his thumb to stuff all the shells.  Another key to the technique is to slide the next shell to be stuffed back across the easyloader gate before reversing direction to stuff it.  That way, it's pre-aligned into the loading gate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just cant find anyway to hold 4 shells flat in my hand without using gravity to keep them there. Also I'm loading a Moss 590 and the gate geometry is a little different than with the autos. Looks like I'll have to play with the hand positioning a little and find my own way from this point.

[smokshwn]

When I was trying to go flat with the shells I was fumbling 50% of the loads, then I accidentally gripped the shells so that I had three shells in a semi circle contacting my index finger and a shell centered in the middle of those three. On this load I easily shaved a second on my load time and found with a few more tries that the fumble factor decreased tremendously. I also found that I had to manipulate the shells less with each cycle to get them in alignment with the loading gate.

I am currently starting with the shell at my index fingers and working towards the shells at the web of my hand. Today I have had the shotgun out setting on the bed and anytime I walk into the bedroom I have done a couple of loads. I am easily breaking 4.5 secs doing the loads cold without practice. I think with a little more time the speed will increase. I have only been working on it for two nights now.

Eric, does Shawn go from the index fingers to the web or the web out to the index finger?

Take care, Craig

[Religious Shooter]

I take it that of those who posted, the Carlock reload isn't your first technique in reloading the shootie.

What technique did you guys use before? Out of what shell carrier type?

What do you find to be better with the Carlock (or are you just experimenting)? The speed? The reload-to-shot times? Maneuvarability through a stage? Less-fumble?

What's good about it?

[Overkill]

What's Good?

Well, mostly its the first methods I've tried where I can actually handle 4 shells at once.

Previously I used the method where you hold the gun on my sholder with my strong hand and stuff 2 shells at a time with my week hand. Occasionally, I'd improvise something where I transfer the gun upsidedown into the crook of my week hand and stuff shells with the strong hand; that was mostly to do a full load on a right traverse which is tough to do safely when you're a lefty.

[Nate]

The short load gate may make loading faster but I like it because I keep more of the skin on my thumb. You ever get your thumb stuck in there?

[EricW]

Eric, does Shawn go from the index fingers to the web or the web out to the index finger? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shawn starts with the shell nearest his fingertips. Now that I have joined the paleolithic era and own a video camera, I'll try to drop by the shop and film his technique.

[EricW]

BTW,

The cut back EZ loader is for clearance into the mag tube. My SG's receiver was pretty radically opened up in that area as well. If I had more confidence in my dremeling ability, I'd probably open it up more. Have to be super careful as you can destroy the receiver if you grind unwisely.

[smokshwn]

Eric,

that would great to actually see someone reloading a shotgun explaining a technique. It seems like all we do is talk about shotgun reloads and it is so much harder to describe in words than to show in person.

RS, my previous method (will stick with it until this proves bulletproof and faster) was to turn the shotgun exactly as described for this maneuver but shuck one in at a time from a sidesaddle. My second load was from a forearm rig and then if I needed another reload I went to a bandolier. My times for shoot 1, stuff 4, shoot 1 from the sidesaddle is a very reliable fumble proof 4 sec. The forearm and bandolier both add about 1-1.5 secs. due to the increased distance my hand has to travel.

I tried weak hand a little but I found it to be not as fast for me as what I was doing, not to mention the disaster factor is huge. I feel much more confident in this method due to the fact that as stated above it is the only method where I feel comfortable handling all four shells.

Right now I am using six shell Choate carriers to load from. I may try Shawn's or just cut these down, we'll see.

Take care, Craig

[Religious Shooter]

My times for shoot 1, stuff 4, shoot 1 from the sidesaddle is a very reliable fumble proof 4 sec.  The forearm and bandolier both add about 1-1.5 secs. due to the increased distance my hand has to travel. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a good time. For me: Shoulder... reload-4... shoulder is about 4.5-5 secs using either a weak or strong hand reload.

I used a drill to find out what it costs to go down to the choate. I had my timer held in my stronghand and both hands were about 1.5 feet from my chest --- to simulate where I would have my weakhand. At the beep I would use my weakhand to travel to the choate, get the shells and immediately come back and slap the timer with the weakhand. The best that I got was 1.05 secs. But my average floated around 1.30 seconds.

I used a similar drill with the stronghand (hands positioned about 3 inches from my belly and offset to the right) and I was getting ~.9 seconds.

So for me (if you take out a .3 reaction time) I'm averaging a ~1 second round trip to the belt using weakhand and about .6 seconds stronghand.

So if I load 3+1=4 or 2+2=4 (both two trips) I'm loosing 1+ seconds for that extra trip using the weakhand and .6+ stronghand vs. 4 per trip (assuming 4 is as fast and fumble-free as 3 or 2 per grab). That's an eye-opener for me.

So like you, I need to train myself to grab and load four at a time.

[Overkill]

I worked on this at the range yesterday. I was running about 7 seconds for 4 loaded in a "break clay, load 4, break clay exercise". That was in the heat with sweaty hands.

[SHAWN CARLOCK]

I cut the EZ loader down for several reasons,

1. It is the location that lines out the next round when I drag it back across to load.

2. You dont catch your thumb on it when the shell snaps in.

3. The roll pin life is increased by about double from less weight flipping up and down at the end of the loader.

4. It does not hang as low below the gun to hang up on stuff.

The most important part of the technique is grabing the shells smoothly and consistantly, Eric is right if you blow the grab you might as well eject them. I spent considerable time just practicing the grab. Here is the part I think did not get across to people effectively. When you grab the shells put your pinky on one side of the shell holder and index finger on the other, ring and the "your number 1 finger" come up the middle to pull the shells out to be captured. The thumb starts out behind the shell carrier, as the first 3 shells come out, they are captured between the index and thumb, the 4th shell is captured between the index tip and pinky tip. The 4th shell is held on the ends by the finger tips unlike the rest. When you get the shells to the gun like this the first shell between the thumb and pinky is the first one in, as soon as it gets to the EZ loader it is pressed from the the thumb/pinky by the 2 middle fingers and slid forward bt the thumb tip now you have the 3 captured shells in hand and are forward of the loading port, slide the next shell back over the EZ loader to line it out with the loading port. When the front of the shell clears the front of the port slide it in with down pressure coming from the leading edge of the hand and repeat until empty. I will try to figure out a way to get a picture on here because I think this is where people are having trouble. If you think this might be your problem try the technique with 3 shells, if it works much better with 3 it is probably the grasp of the 4th shell that is bitting you. I also tried to grap clusters of shells (5) in circular method total failure for me time and fumble wise. Hope this helps.

[.40AET]

How much do you cut down the EZ loader? What about drilling a hole in the back 1/2 to further reduce the wieght??? Any photos of cut down next to a standard length?

Thanks.

[EricW]

40,

There's some pics of what Shawn did to my 1100 in this thread.

I had to do some additional stuff to eliminate some periodic mystery loading jams including grinding down the welds inside the Choate mag tube and trimming the shell lifter back so that rounds that were severely tilted in the magazine wouldn't jam the lifter.

There's more to it than just trimming the EZ loader right. You have to know how to get everything in time. Shawn has the juju to tweak the internals and to replace the clip on the interceptor latch. If you don't know how to tension the springs right (I don't), nothing will work.

You will also notice that the forend is worked over. That's another key to making the technique work.