Cuz Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Ok, I've read the posts and done a lot of searching. I'm new to .40 caliber shooting and don't want to shoot any more lead. I've decided (after long hours of reading here) that I will buy a case or two of Montana Gold 180 gr bullets. Can you guys help me determine which one to choose? This is ONLY for recreational shooting and local matches. Nothing else. What is the difference (performance wise) between a JHP, the FMJ or the CMJ bullets. All responses are greatly appreciated. I want to figure this out before I buy 5000 of them. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 From everything I've seen/read, jhp's are more accurate. The difference probably isn't that significant though. The fmj has a metal jacket everywhere but the base where lead is exposed. The cmj does not have any lead exposed. If the cmj is significantly less than the jhp, go for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I shot the FMJ's for 3 years. They shoot great. I wanted to improve the performance of the load and decrease leading/lead exposure. I went to the CMJ's because they are the same profile as the FMJ. (They are both a flat point) The solid base bullets (CMJ & JHP) will not smoke as much as a FMJ because there isn't any lead exposed. The lead used in jacketed bullets is very soft. Some of the lead gets burned while the powder burns. CMJ's & JHP's will generally give you a little more velocity. I dropped .2g of N320 when I changed from FMJ to CMJ bullets. You can't go wrong with either the CMJ or the JHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 You can't go wrong with either the CMJ or the JHP. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great, thanks for the info. Now I've eliminated FMJ and am down to two. Is there any performance difference between the CMJ and the JHP? I mean if they are absolutely positively the exact same then I guess I'll go with the hollow points based soley on the point that if I'm going to have a few thousand bullets at the house I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use. Can someone tell me which one is taller? I might choose the taller one because that will give me more bullet in the case which may result in better bullet grip. that may minimize the chances of the bullet getting pushed back in the case during feeding. Does either JHP or CMJ tend to feed more reliably? I have a stock Para P16.40 Limited LDA. If one was more reliable than the other I'd like to know. Yes I know I could order some and test, but if I'm going to order I'd like to order at least a case for the price break so I want to make as best a guess as I can. Thanks again for the info. -Cuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 The JHP will be taller (longer bullet OAL) than the CMJ in the same weight. The thing you have to remember though is that the longer bullet = decreased case capacity = higher pressure (possibly). Be sure to start low, work up slowly, chrono and watch for signs of pressure. No matter what jacketed bullet (.400" dia) you use, crimp to ~.420"-.421" and you shouldn't have any problems with bullet set-back. I've loaded and shot FMJ, JHP and CEB (copper enclosed base) bullets and haven't had to adjust anything other than the powder charge to compensate for the longer (or shorter) bullet OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Does either JHP or CMJ tend to feed more reliably? I never tried the JHP's, but I did load the CMJ's for a P-16 Limited (not LDA if it matters). As long as the magazines were working they fed great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I've used a bunch of each (i.e., multiple cases of each). There isn't much difference. The JHP and CMJ seem to provide a touch more velocity and maybe a little more consistent velocities. Also, I'm not sold on the reliability of the JHP in my guns. Maybe it coincided with my recoil springs and/or magazine springs going bad, but I had jams with JHP I just didn't have with FMJ or JHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Wider tip on JHP can cause feeding issues on some guns. Polished ramp normally cures this. JHP have generally been more accurate in my experience, this accuracy difference may not translate into better scores since the gun generally will outdo the shooter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Cuz, I have a bunch of .40 180 CMJ and JHP from Zero. I'll bring a handfull of each to the RIMLC match Sunday if you can make it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Cuz, I have a bunch of .40 180 CMJ and JHP from Zero. I'll bring a handfull of each to the RIMLC match Sunday if you can make it. Steve <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Steve. That'd be great. I plan on being there. Not sure if I'll shoot a .40 or .45 yet. I'll bring both and decide once I'm there. See you Saturday. -Cuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 I've used a bunch of each (i.e., multiple cases of each). There isn't much difference.Also, I'm not sold on the reliability of the JHP in my guns. Maybe it coincided with my recoil springs and/or magazine springs going bad, but I had jams with JHP I just didn't have with FMJ or JHP. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the info Eric. Reliability is a concern. A handful of jams per 1000 or so rounds I can live with. More than that and I worry. Although I've already had a few jams with my Para P16 that I think I'm attributing to the fact that I'm loading out to 1.135 OAL. Loading the .40 is new to me so I have a lot to work out. Plus I'm still using up the last of my Bullseye powder. Then I plan to switch to Power Pistol after searching thru many posts here. Seems like that and TiteGroup are the favorites if you don't count Vihtavouri. I don't see many places selling it locally. I appreciate your input. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 A handful of jams per 1,000 is totally inexcusable. There's no reason your gun shouldn't run 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 My P16 feeds pretty much anything I have tried. Even the loads for my STI that are at 1.200 OAL. You may want to polish your feedramp per this post http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ramp,and,polish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 A handful of jams per 1,000 is totally inexcusable. There's no reason your gun shouldn't run 100%. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what I'll strive for. I'm there with my .45, but it's been worked on. Not counting revolvers, only my S&W 9mm and other "combat" type firearms function 100 %. My target/competition guns all needed work so I'm just assuming that in order to eliminate that handfull of jams I'll need to have some work done. For right now I'll accept the 80-90% reliability until I decide on a load to shoot, and then whether or not I like the gun enough to have work done to it. When I first bought it I really liked the LDA trigger, but now that I'm shooting it a lot I don't particularly care for the LDA trigger on a competition gun. I like it on a carry/defensive gun because I'm more comfortable with it. I was originally going to put a comp and electronic sight on this Para, but now I'll wait to find a single action gun. I'll keep this one the way it is. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 My P16 feeds pretty much anything I have tried. Even the loads for my STI that are at 1.200 OAL. You may want to polish your feedramp per this post http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ramp,and,polish <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the link. I'll check it out right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 You can't go wrong with either the CMJ or the JHP. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've been told that MG's hollowpoints weren't designed for expansion at all. I've also been told that using handloads as self defence ammunition is asking for trouble. A case could be made for using what the local PD uses, and practicing with a ballistic equivalent for the sake getting the feel of the load, after testing the factory original extensively for reliability in your own self defence sidearm. Just passing along advice received, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 You can't go wrong with either the CMJ or the JHP. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've been told that MG's hollowpoints weren't designed for expansion at all. I've also been told that using handloads as self defence ammunition is asking for trouble. A case could be made for using what the local PD uses, and practicing with a ballistic equivalent for the sake getting the feel of the load, after testing the factory original extensively for reliability in your own self defence sidearm. Just passing along advice received, fwiw. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Normally, I would never carry handloads for personal defense, but lets be realistic here. Just about all shooters have more than a few boxes of ammo stored away "just in case". Heck, I own a Mini-14 I've put a few hundred rounds thru and then stuck in the back of the safe "just in case". I'm not much into rifle shooting. Too long to walk to setup targets. I guess I was just kind of thinking out loud that if I was going to pretty much always have at least a case of bullet heads in the process of being loaded and shot then why not make them be hollowpoints rather than roundnose "just in case". I do a lot of things "just in case". Don't most shooters??? Anyway, that would be ONLY if there was no difference between them. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Of course I have "just in case" firearms - I doubt anyone on these forums doesn't. I do keep "just in case" factory ammo in them, though, and have plenty of factory "just in case" ammo in stock besides my "enough ammo to start WWIII" match ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted June 26, 2005 Author Share Posted June 26, 2005 Of course I have "just in case" firearms - I doubt anyone on these forums doesn't. I do keep "just in case" factory ammo in them, though, and have plenty of factory "just in case" ammo in stock besides my "enough ammo to start WWIII" match ammo. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Too funny Kevin. I hear ya loud and clear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 3, 2005 Author Share Posted July 3, 2005 Just to wrap up, I rec'd some samples from MG and I was very impressed. They looked much better than I would have thought considering they are amont the least expensive. I ended up ordering a case of the 180gr JHP and was VERY surprised to get them in 3 days. My postal carrier didn't even try to deliver, he just stuck the card in my mailbox saying I had to go pick it up at the post office. Man, I bet the post office is going to rethink that policy about shipping anything that will fit in those little boxes regardless of weight. They weren't counting on the shooting industry. Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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