115gr precision delta hp col

[Bullets]

11 hours ago, IDescribe said:

Okay, Bullet, instead of trying to convince you that your gauge is unnecessary, here's an attempt to help you conceptualize the problem you're having:

Think of a cross-section of a barrel.  From the chamber end, the cut reflects the diameter of the case, plus whatever extra few thousandths to allow the case to pass into the chamber freely and headspace at the casemouth on the chamber's headspacing step.  The inner diameter of the chamber before the headspacing step is about .381. Then, the headspacing step shrinks the inner diameter to around .361, tight enough to serve as a step for the case mouth, but big enough to accomodate whatever diameter bullet you are using.  That .361 section of bore (which we often call the leade, throat, or free-bore) will extend a very short distance and narrow a little itself to the point where the rifling begins, which then shrinks the inner diameter of the bore down to about .354, smaller than the bullet to be used. The length of the leade/throat and the degree to which it narrows is what causes different bullets to have different max OALs in different pistols since THAT is what controls how far away the rifling is from the case mouth when the pistol is fully in battery. 

 

That's a barrel.  In a case gauge, the gauge needs only to reflect what's going on inside the barrel in terms of inner diameter up to the beginning of the leade/throat.  There is NO REASON for a case gauge to narrow the interior diameter again to reflect the rifling because different pistol manufacturers have leades/throats of different lengths.  Some European manufacturers, like CZ, Tanfoglio, Walther (in some of their pistols), and the Croat manufacturer of the XD are probably the most common seen here in the U.S. who cut "short" throats.  In my experience, a more common "long"  leade/throat length seems to be .03-.05 longer than the short ones, again, in terms of my own experience.  I make no claims to know the specific design specs of various manufacturers.  Then you have some 1911 and 2011 barrels where the leades are extra long for the express purpose of accommodating OALs longer than the SAAMI max OAL of 1.169 for 9mm Luger. 

NOW, if what you have described about your problem is accurate, it suggest that your case gauge has narrowed the bore diameter past the throat/leade to reflect the rifling.  This might cause no problems at all with normal long or short throated 9mm pistols.  But if your 1911 barrel is cut for you to load longer than 1.169, that would mean that your barrel's leade is longer than standard for 9mm, and that MIGHT be the reason your case gauge is stopping that bullet before your barrel is.

I can't be sure that's the case.  I don't use case gauges.  And I don't have access to your case gauge.  I don't have access to your pistol.  I don't have access to your ammo.  So this is just educated speculation, but IF that is what is going on, you will NEVER be able to load that bullet as long as what the pistol will allow and get those same cartridges to pass your case gauge.  Your case gauge would simply be incompatible with that pistol and that bullet in that regard.

Good luck.  

Sorry man. Not even trying to read all of that. Wasn't looking for reloading lessons from all of these people. I've got that down pat. I literally asked what length people were loading these bullets to and the forum police jumped in trying to teach me something.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bullets

[Hi-Power Jack]

thanks, IDescribe - great info.    

 

I've been loading for 50 years, and appreciate the time you took to explain some of the basics.     

[Darrell]

I spoke with Precision Delta last week, their loaded match ammo 115 JHP and 124 JHP are loaded to a COL of 1.100". Max OAL in my CZ accushadow with a 124 PD JHP is 1.110"

[Bullets]

On 6/12/2017 at 4:31 PM, Darrell said:

I spoke with Precision Delta last week, their loaded match ammo 115 JHP and 124 JHP are loaded to a COL of 1.100". Max OAL in my CZ accushadow with a 124 PD JHP is 1.110"

Best Info posted yet. Thanks buddy. That make a me feel better.  Must be the shape of the bullet

[R1_Demon]

On 6/8/2017 at 4:40 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

Load ammo long enough it won't drop into your chamber, then slowly shorten it until it drops into the barrel *and* spins freely.

 

Shorten that length about .005" as your starting length, and go shoot it over a chrono, and check it for accuracy @ 25yd.

 

Memphis - Question...when you are doing this to find your OAL, do you crimp and such while you are doing this?  Or do you just keep seating the bullet further down (not crimping) and keep trying the plunk and spin method to verify until you get it to plunk and spin freely?  My question being is, if you don't crimp, will/should it still plunk and spin freely to verify your OAL with your specific barrel?

[Hi-Power Jack]

10 minutes ago, R1_Demon said:

 if you don't crimp, will it  plunk?

 

We really don't "crimp" 9mm - we just remove the bell (RTB).

 

So, yes, you have to "remove the bell" (but not actually crimp).

 

Then it will Plunk and Spin.

 

But, after you RTB you are still able to push the bullet in a 

little more easily.     

[MemphisMechanic]

As Jack said, I don't *crimp* 9mm loads. It can lead to all kinds of issues with coated and plated bullets. I adjust my crimp die to remove all traces of flare from the case walls, and that's it. Perhaps the slightest bend inwards of the rim.

 

Yes, you must crimp a round in order to chamber check it. The flared case mouth won't even let it drop into the chamber all the way.

 

However, you can also adjust your seating did downward to shove that already crimped bullet deeper in to case, shortening it in small increments until it plunks & spins. Even with coated bullets I don't usually have issues with this shaving coating off. And I'm going to use that round as a dummy round for dryfire afterward anyway... so it doesn't even get pulled and then fired later on.

 

Take your time finding your maximum OAL for your Bullet and your barrel. Let's say that is 1.128" in a CZ you own. I deduct .005" so that I have some wiggle room to ensure reliability, and load my first batch of ammo at 1.123" which then gets tested for accuracy, and chronographed to check velocity.

Edited June 16, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Darrell]

3 hours ago, R1_Demon said:

 

Memphis - Question...when you are doing this to find your OAL, do you crimp and such while you are doing this?  Or do you just keep seating the bullet further down (not crimping) and keep trying the plunk and spin method to verify until you get it to plunk and spin freely?  My question being is, if you don't crimp, will/should it still plunk and spin freely to verify your OAL with your specific barrel?

I took a straight Hornady OAL tool meant for rifles, ordered a tap for the thread pitch, and drilled and tapped a fired 9mm case. I slid a .358 jacketed bullet in and out several times to loosen it up. Then I took the barrels out of my guns and tested each bullet I had on hand to see what the max OAL was for each bullet in them and put it into my spreadsheet. I forgot the tap size, I'll have to look at it when I get back from vacation. I added a pic of my testing OAL on PD 124 JHP in my accushadow.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Darrell
Addj JPG

[R1_Demon]

16 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

We really don't "crimp" 9mm - we just remove the bell (RTB).

 

So, yes, you have to "remove the bell" (but not actually crimp).

 

Then it will Plunk and Spin.

 

But, after you RTB you are still able to push the bullet in a 

little more easily.     

 

Jack - Thank you. I keep forgetting to say debelling instead of crimp. ???.  I'll get there. LOL!   But thank you for the info. This way I know how to set up my Hornady die when testing OAL. 

[R1_Demon]

16 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

As Jack said, I don't *crimp* 9mm loads. It can lead to all kinds of issues with coated and plated bullets. I adjust my crimp die to remove all traces of flare from the case walls, and that's it. Perhaps the slightest bend inwards of the rim.

 

Yes, you must crimp a round in order to chamber check it. The flared case mouth won't even let it drop into the chamber all the way.

 

However, you can also adjust your seating did downward to shove that already crimped bullet deeper in to case, shortening it in small increments until it plunks & spins. Even with coated bullets I don't usually have issues with this shaving coating off. And I'm going to use that round as a dummy round for dryfire afterward anyway... so it doesn't even get pulled and then fired later on.

 

Take your time finding your maximum OAL for your Bullet and your barrel. Let's say that is 1.128" in a CZ you own. I deduct .005" so that I have some wiggle room to ensure reliability, and load my first batch of ammo at 1.123" which then gets tested for accuracy, and chronographed to check velocity.

 

Sounds like a plan. Thank you so much. ???

[R1_Demon]

13 hours ago, Darrell said:

I took a straight Hornady OAL tool meant for rifles, ordered a tap for the thread pitch, and drilled and tapped a fired 9mm case. I slid a .358 jacketed bullet in and out several times to loosen it up. Then I took the barrels out of my guns and tested each bullet I had on hand to see what the max OAL was for each bullet in them and put it into my spreadsheet. I forgot the tap size, I'll have to look at it when I get back from vacation. I added a pic of my testing OAL on PD 124 JHP in my accushadow.

 

Thank you, Darrell. Pretty cool and nice chart.