Area 6 Fubar.

[jspruance]

I need a lot of feedback on this problem. Hopefully a lot of people will be able to respond with first or even second hand information.

I shot the Area 6 match last Saturday and on the last stage I shot, about half way through my gun quit running. I racked the slide and took a new round in and point and pull, nothing. Drop the mag, rack a new round and discover the slide is not going all the way into battery. Try again, no luck. I told the CRO I was finished.

I went to the safe area and could not find any obstruction. Since the barrel was empty the gun went into battery fine the hammer dropped and everything looked fine.

When I got back to the motel that night, I removed the barrel and using a flashlight I could see the chamber looked short. I took a small fine bladed screw driver and worked the chamber close to the lands and finally remover a piece of copper about 1/16 in. thick in a perfect circle that appears to be a small portion of the base of the bullet. This kept the rounds from dropping completely into the chamber.

I use Star 124 FMJ bullets.

Has anyone seen or heard of this problem before?

BTW 260 penalty points , zeroed the stage.

[smokshwn]

What caliber of bullet are you shooting and what caliber is your gun? I am thinking your bullets may be a bit oversized for your barrel.

I have a 9mm shorty and was shipped a batch of mismarked bullets. I ordered .355's and received .356's. In load develpment I noticed sd's all over the place and started to investigate. When I looked in my chamber I found the same ring of copper you describe.

Other than that I don't have any other ideas.

Good luck, Craig

[diehli]

I had this problem and attributed it to shaved bullets due to not enough bell. Increased the bell a tiny bit and it's gone.

[BritinUSA]

I have not heard of this before but I have a theory.

I think you loaded a case that was not the correct oal. So the case did not reach the end of the chamber, so the bullet expanded into that tiny gap and left the ring of copper.

[Sharyn]

I was squadded with you... that was painful to watch. I'm sorry it happened.

Thanks for posting. I really wanted to know what the problem was. I was dead tired before we shot that stage and got lost in the shuffle before I could ask you.

Way to stick with it though... man, you tried everything possible to get back in the game... I was tempted to hand you my gun.

Did you talk with anyone in our squad about it?

[Brazos Custom]

I saw you shooting that one, I thought you had a squib. I would agree with the Gorilla - I had a customer with the same problem and when I examined their reloads they had shaved copper around the case mouth. Look at your reloads and you will see it. New brass is worse about this it is sharp on the case mouth.

Another thing that will cause it is a very sharp edge at the muzzle end of the chamber. 0.356 bullets instead of 0.355 should not cause a problem except that you have to bell the case a little more (very little).

Usually you can catch this problem when you are case gauging your rounds.

[Sharyn]

LOL! I was about to edit and add "Did you ask Bob Londrigan about it?"

[diehli]

I have not heard of this before but I have a theory.

I think you loaded a case that was not the correct oal. So the case did not reach the end of the chamber, so the bullet expanded into that tiny gap and left the ring of copper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTW, this is what I originally thought it was, especially with the 125 Zero JHP's I shoot (the base is concave and looks ripe for this kinda thing). I shaved one bullet pretty bad when loading and then looked through the ~1400 I had loaded (that took a LONG time) and found ~20 that were shaved. I used a dental pick to get as much off as I could and then went and shot them at the range (not at a match)... not a problem, but not a habit I want to get into.

[ErikW]

Yup, I get half-ring copper shavings from Zero unless I increase the mouth flare on my Super brass. Doesn't happen with MGs.

[jspruance]

Lots of good thoughts.

BritinUSA -- I do gage drop all of my rounds, if they don't drop flush they go to the practice box. But I could have dropped a 9/21 and not caught it.

Brazos -- I checked my reloads I do not see any copper shavings around the case mouth. For my match brass I tumble my loaded rounds for about 10 min. then roll them around in a clean rag to get any lube residue and dirt off of them.

Gorilla -- I have enough bell in my cases that I am able to let the bullet drop in and set by itself when it gets seated.

Smokshwn -- They are 9mm .355 dia. I have noticed some wide swings in chrony velocity.

Sniper -- Thanks for the kind words. Are you the prod. guy that kept having ammo problems?

As a side note the copper ring that I dug out looks like a babys ring. It is very solid and does not break apary with probing. Is it possible that this solid piece is the product of tiny copper particles bonded together instead of one large ring from a single event?

Thanks for all of the input so far.

[Sharyn]

Sniper -- Thanks for the kind words. Are you the prod. guy that kept having ammo problems?

LOL! Naw, that was Gordon. I'm the shorter blonde gal.

[jspruance]

One of the two young ladies in squad 5 that kicked my A$$ all over southern Georgia. I remember now. BTW nice shooting from both of you.

[old shooter]

I had this very thing happen to me when I started working up loads for my major9. I was using 124 star bullets .356. When I reached major PF, the bullets could start leaving small rings in the chamber just in fron of the lands. It would keep the gun from chambering. I think what was happening, is that the bullet had a big jump to the lands, and was slightly upsetting, causing it to enter the bbl somewhat off the axis of the bore. When I started loading longer, this stopped. I also lightly knocked off the sharp edges of the the lands with a bit of valve grinding compound, used with a cotton swab and wooden dowel.

So, have you just started using the star bullets, or have you receintly shortened your oal? Are you using a sheumann bbl?, and are you using a major 9?

Mike

[lynn jones]

i had a this problem many years ago. i think the bell flair die is too narrow. open up the bell flair die and this should correct your problem.

lynn

[Ross Carter]

This will sound crazy but I saw it happen. Bullet whacking the comp and pieces of bullet jacket ending back at the chamber. Caused several extra gray hairs, evidently the comp shifted a little after being shot a bunch. I have no idea how i got there but when I cut some more clearance in the comp paying particular attention to the sharp edges it fixed it. Have a look at your comp and see if there's and rub signs inside the baffles.

[smokshwn]

JS

I don't know if you have actually measured the bullets but mine were from Zero and marked 9mm .355 but in actuality Zero had mispackaged a bunch of .356 bullets. All common knowledge said that it shouldn't be a problem but for whatever reason (tolerance stacking, tight chamber, etc) I experienced exactly as you describe including chrony results all over the place and the shaved ring of copper in the chamber.

Anyway again good luck, Craig

[jspruance]

Old Shooter,

I have used Star bullets for about 5 years. I shoot about 10K rounds a year. This is the first time I have had this problem.

It is a Schumann Hybrid barrel

It is a 9X23.

Lynn,

I'll give that a try.

Thanks to all that replied. I appreciate the feed back.

Jim