Does a Wide competition strike harder than a narrow competition hammer?

[ArrDave]

Forgive me because this is getting lost in the weeds, but thinking about it  the more mass of the wider hammer would transfer more energy to the firing pin than the less massive narrow comp hammer.  That said I mostly see the thinner comp hammers on recent shadows.  Anyone played with the difference in the two hammers? 

[zzt]

The same mainspring is powering both hammers and imparts the same amount of energy to both.  The more massive hammer moves more slowly.  The lighter hammer moves faster (and reduces lock time).

Think of a 7 ft/lb air rifle.  It is going to impart 7 ft/lbs of energy to aly pellet you fire from it.  Use a 7.5gr pellet and the muzzle velocity is higher.  Use an 8.6gr pellet and muzzle velocity is lower.  Both have exactly 7 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

Edited November 7, 2016 by zzt

[mikeinctown]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 0:33 PM, zzt said:

The same mainspring is powering both hammers and imparts the same amount of energy to both.  The more massive hammer moves more slowly.  The lighter hammer moves faster (and reduces lock time).

Think of a 7 ft/lb air rifle.  It is going to impart 7 ft/lbs of energy to aly pellet you fire from it.  Use a 7.5gr pellet and the muzzle velocity is higher.  Use an 8.6gr pellet and muzzle velocity is lower.  Both have exactly 7 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

Your analogy is off.

The muzzle velocity may be higher, but we are also taking into account the force applied upon a sudden stop. To use a different analogy, a a car and a truck go speeding at a brick wall. The car, while it can accelerate quicker, will also stop easier. the truck, while taking longer to speed up, will not decelerate as quickly and will go through the wall. Or you can apply the same logic to a baseball and bat. A lighter bat will allow the hitter to swing slightly faster, but when the bat hits the bal, it will decelerate quicker than will a heavier bat hitting that same ball.

 

Also, there is a point at which the two objects will reach nearly the same speed. So just because one hammer is lighter and gets going faster, the heavier hammer may very wel reach the same speed by the time it strikes the firing pin. In which case the heavier hammer will have more force behind it.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that when parts such as this become smaller it is because of economics. A thinner sheet of material will cost less, resulting in less cost to produce. As long as the desired results are achieved, then the re-engineering of the part has saved the company $$, resulting in profit.

[zzt]

Any way you slice it, the same amount of force is applied to both hammers.  At no point will they reach the same speed in the milliseconds they take to fall.

[rowdyb]

f=ma

[GARD72977]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:33 AM, zzt said:

The same mainspring is powering both hammers and imparts the same amount of energy to both.  The more massive hammer moves more slowly.  The lighter hammer moves faster (and reduces lock time).

Think of a 7 ft/lb air rifle.  It is going to impart 7 ft/lbs of energy to aly pellet you fire from it.  Use a 7.5gr pellet and the muzzle velocity is higher.  Use an 8.6gr pellet and muzzle velocity is lower.  Both have exactly 7 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle.

I'm a big airgun guy. This is way off.

[Bullets]

On 11/8/2016 at 2:09 PM, mikeinctown said:

Your analogy is off.

The muzzle velocity may be higher, but we are also taking into account the force applied upon a sudden stop. To use a different analogy, a a car and a truck go speeding at a brick wall. The car, while it can accelerate quicker, will also stop easier. the truck, while taking longer to speed up, will not decelerate as quickly and will go through the wall. Or you can apply the same logic to a baseball and bat. A lighter bat will allow the hitter to swing slightly faster, but when the bat hits the bal, it will decelerate quicker than will a heavier bat hitting that same ball.

 

Also, there is a point at which the two objects will reach nearly the same speed. So just because one hammer is lighter and gets going faster, the heavier hammer may very wel reach the same speed by the time it strikes the firing pin. In which case the heavier hammer will have more force behind it.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that when parts such as this become smaller it is because of economics. A thinner sheet of material will cost less, resulting in less cost to produce. As long as the desired results are achieved, then the re-engineering of the part has saved the company $$, resulting in 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Bullets

[kneelingatlas]

On 11/8/2016 at 11:09 AM, mikeinctown said:

Personally, I'm of the opinion that when parts such as this become smaller it is because of economics. A thinner sheet of material will cost less, resulting in less cost to produce. As long as the desired results are achieved, then the re-engineering of the part has saved the company $$, resulting in profit.

Do you really think it's costs less to make this:

Than this:

They're the same width at the bottom so they're cut from the same size stock, the only difference is an extra machining step to narrow down the top one so it will fit inside the narrower slot in an SP01 slide as opposed to the Shadow slide.

As far as the weight of the hammer goes, I've never noticed more reliable ignition with one over the other, although in theory the lighter hammer should set off primers better.  The big difference, as mentioned above, is lock time.  The two hammers above vary in weight to a very small degree, but the Jericho 941 hammer is significantly heavier and falls noticeably slower.

Revolver guys would be the best to ask about this.

Edited November 12, 2016 by kneelingatlas

[Gcarr]

I would think that this would be the same as calculating the power factor of a bullet. The spring would be the powder... The hammer would be the bullet ... To know which transfers the most energy to the firing pin... You need to know the rotating weight of each hammer (if the weight is the only difference... No geometry changes) and the speed that each traveled. I have guns with both ... And they both go bang... ?

[ArrDave]

26 minutes ago, Gcarr said:

I would think that this would be the same as calculating the power factor of a bullet. The spring would be the powder... The hammer would be the bullet ... To know which transfers the most energy to the firing pin... You need to know the rotating weight of each hammer (if the weight is the only difference... No geometry changes) and the speed that each traveled. I have guns with both ... And they both go bang... ?

i was curious if perhaps one would allow you to spring a gun lighter than the other.   I'm not somebody who chases low DA, but I was curious if one was a clear option.  I saw a thread on the Tanfo page of a guy testing different trigger group pieces with the pencil test to see how hard they hit vs. trigger pull weight.