Noob reloader! Could use some advice on building an XL650

[slippp]

Here is my build list so far. Please critique and comment as necessary to provide better insight! 

- Dillon XL650 (9mm, 38 super)
- 9MM carbide die set 
- 650 casefeeder small pistol 
- 1 inch bench wrench
- x8 small pickup tubes 
- Primer flip tray
- 650 spare parts kit
- Handle with aluminum roller
- 650 machine mount
- Bullet Tray Kit 
- 650 conversion for 10mm/40SW
- Carbide Die set 10/40
- XL650 Quickchange x2 (will ask about this later) 
- Casefeeder plate large pistol 
- Carbide Die Set 38 Super 
- x3 XL650/1050 powder check system 
- Dillon Dial Caliper 
- D terminator scale 
- Small Media Separator 
- Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler / dehydrator / media separator 
- Corn Cob Media (10lb) 
- Brass polish 290
- XL650 Toolhead 

How does the list look so far? My questions are: 

- Would I need to get the XL650 quickchange if I'm gonna do a toolhead setup with powder drops? 
- What would be the best way to optimize the build?
- I want to make changing between calibers as easy as possible. Would this setup be the best way? 

I picked the XL650 over the 1050 due to lifetime warranty.

Eventually I would like to load 45ACP and 44 mag as well. 

Thanks for the help!

Edited August 31, 2016 by slippp

[Sarge]

I would skip the dies and buy LEE. Also get it over with and buy and undersized die by LEE/EGW.

i think 40 can use small pistol CF plate so skip the large.

if you have room get the large separator. I use the small and sometimes I wish I had gotten the bigger one.

unless you just like killing time I would skip wet tumbling. I did a test last winter and to do it right it is very time consuming and tedious. All so you can get the cases shiny inside? Not worth it. Besides the brass tarnishes over time once wet tumbled. Dry tumbled stays nice and shiny.

bench wrench is junk. Better to use a deep well socket.

even if you get LEE dies use Dillon 1" nuts.

buy walnut and corncob from local sandblast shops, grainger, etc. way way cheaper. 

Nu finish car wax mixed with mineral spirits is a better and cheaper brass polish.

you will want to use case lube and Dillon makes good lube.

650 is awesome. Save up and get a mr bullet feeder eventually.

[alan1985]

Quick changes are definitely the way to go to make swapping calibers faster and more convenient. You want to be able to set up your dies once and go, not have to dial them in every time you switch calibers.

If you are going to wet tumble you need stainless pins, not corncob and brass polish. I wet tumble with lemishine and car wash wax. I mostly do this so my rifle primer pockets get clean but to each their own, dry tumbling works fine as well.

I agree with Sarge on the dies, no need to spend twice as much just to have Dillon dies. I've used Hornady, Lee, and RCBS on my 650 without issue.

You can never have enough primer pickup tubes, take the money you're saving on non-Dillon dies and buy more.

I personally don't use the powder check system, and eventually you'll want a Mr. Bullet feeder and will need that station anyway. I say skip it and do a visual check as you go.

 

[Boxerglocker]

My first question is how much reloading experience do you have? I personally see a lot of redundancy in your list. For example you don't need 3 powder checks, you need to check/adjust each time you switch calibers anyways. Multiple calibers, with quick changes IMO if you load enough to make the expense  for the switching worth while great, otherwise waste of money IMO. I load 500-1000 a session and dump my powder back into the jug.  I use a single powder drop with a Uniquetek micrometer dial.

Depending on your experience. I would suggest that perhaps getting the 650 set-up for just one caliber to start  and maybe an extra toolhead, dies, conversion might be a good way to really evaluate what you really need. Switching pistol calibers even from scratch isn't difficult IF you know what you are doing.

[Phlier]

Well, darn it, I have to disagree with Sarge. I just received my Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler on Monday, and I *love* it. Especially when you use the Frankford Arsenal Media separator that is meant to go along with it... FA makes a few different media separators, so you need to make sure you get the one that is meant to go along with the FA Rotary Tumbler. The FA media separator is what makes the difference between wet tumbling being a complete pain in the hind quarters to being... pleasant. Yup, you heard that right.  It's actually a pleasant experience now. The media separator makes it soooo easy to rinse your brass off, separate the SS pins, and get the brass in to the dryer, it's just ridiculous how easy it is! And when you see that brass come out looking like it was just freshly formed from the factory... There is literally *nothing* on the brass, inside or out! It is completely clean, and without any of that annoying dry media dust sticking to the cases. Wet tumbling really can be as easy as dry with the right tools. I'll never vibrate another case. Also, if your wet tumbled cases are tarnishing over time, then you need to change what you're using in the wet media solution. Citric acid not only brings back the original color to the brass, it will also "passivate" it. Passivizing a metal means that you are making it more resistant to tarnish and corrosion than it would be in it's original state. Don't believe me? Google it. Citric Acid will passivate brass, making it much more resistant to tarnishing, discoloration, and even corrosion than it would be if not treated with it. LemiShine is a commercial brand of citric acid that is popular with the wet tumbling group. Give it a try.

Your 650 order looks very good. One thing to consider, though. The caliber conversion kits aren't cheap. You need to be loading enough of a given caliber to justify the expense of the caliber conversion kits.

I just received my 1050 two days ago. I'll be loading .223 and 9mm on it exclusively, and I'll be getting a Lee Classic Turret Press (to replace my trusty old Rock Chucker) for pretty much all of my other calibers. The nice thing about the Classic Turret Press is that it's *cheap*, and it's cheap to switch over to other calibers, too. In spite of the fact that it's cheap, you'll still be able to kick out 150 rounds per hour, which IMO, is perfect for low volume production.

So if money is an issue (and when isn't it, really?) load the calibers that you'll be loading in bulk on the 650, then have an alternative for the calibers you don't shoot enough to justify the caliber conversion expense.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Phlier

[Sarge]

7 hours ago, alan1985 said:

Quick changes are definitely the way to go to make swapping calibers faster and more convenient. You want to be able to set up your dies once and go, not have to dial them in every time you switch calibers.

If you are going to wet tumble you need stainless pins, not corncob and brass polish. I wet tumble with lemishine and car wash wax. I mostly do this so my rifle primer pockets get clean but to each their own, dry tumbling works fine as well.

I agree with Sarge on the dies, no need to spend twice as much just to have Dillon dies. I've used Hornady, Lee, and RCBS on my 650 without issue.

You can never have enough primer pickup tubes, take the money you're saving on non-Dillon dies and buy more.

I personally don't use the powder check system, and eventually you'll want a Mr. Bullet feeder and will need that station anyway. I say skip it and do a visual check as you go.

 

 

7 hours ago, alan1985 said:

Quick changes are definitely the way to go to make swapping calibers faster and more convenient. You want to be able to set up your dies once and go, not have to dial them in every time you switch calibers.

If you are going to wet tumble you need stainless pins, not corncob and brass polish. I wet tumble with lemishine and car wash wax. I mostly do this so my rifle primer pockets get clean but to each their own, dry tumbling works fine as well.

I agree with Sarge on the dies, no need to spend twice as much just to have Dillon dies. I've used Hornady, Lee, and RCBS on my 650 without issue.

You can never have enough primer pickup tubes, take the money you're saving on non-Dillon dies and buy more.

I personally don't use the powder check system, and eventually you'll want a Mr. Bullet feeder and will need that station anyway. I say skip it and do a visual check as you go.

 

I totally missed the powder checks! Waste of money. Buy a cheap light and clamp it to the press so it shines into the case. There is no better way than LOOKING into the case

[Sarge]

51 minutes ago, Phlier said:

Well, darn it, I have to disagree with Sarge. I just received my Frankford Arsenal Rotary Tumbler on Monday, and I *love* it. Especially when you use the Frankford Arsenal Media separator that is meant to go along with it... FA makes a few different media separators, so you need to make sure you get the one that is meant to go along with the FA Rotary Tumbler. The FA media separator is what makes the difference between wet tumbling being a complete pain in the hind quarters to being... pleasant. Yup, you heard that right.  It's actually a pleasant experience now. The media separator makes it soooo easy to rinse your brass off, separate the SS pins, and get the brass in to the dryer, it's just ridiculous how easy it is! And when you see that brass come out looking like it was just freshly formed from the factory... There is literally *nothing* on the brass, inside or out! It is completely clean, and without any of that annoying dry media dust sticking to the cases. Wet tumbling really can be as easy as dry with the right tools. I'll never vibrate another case. Also, if your wet tumbled cases are tarnishing over time, then you need to change what you're using in the wet media solution. Citric acid not only brings back the original color to the brass, it will also "passivate" it. Passivizing a metal means that you are making it more resistant to tarnish and corrosion than it would be in it's original state. Don't believe me? Google it. Citric Acid will passivate brass, making it much more resistant to tarnishing, discoloration, and even corrosion than it would be if not treated with it. LemiShine is a commercial brand of citric acid that is popular with the wet tumbling group. Give it a try.

Your 650 order looks very good. One thing to consider, though. The caliber conversion kits aren't cheap. You need to be loading enough of a given caliber to justify the expense of the caliber conversion kits.

I just received my 1050 two days ago. I'll be loading .223 and 9mm on it exclusively, and I'll be getting a Lee Classic Turret Press (to replace my trusty old Rock Chucker) for pretty much all of my other calibers. The nice thing about the Classic Turret Press is that it's *cheap*, and it's cheap to switch over to other calibers, too. In spite of the fact that it's cheap, you'll still be able to kick out 150 rounds per hour, which IMO, is perfect for low volume production.

So if money is an issue (and when isn't it, really?) load the calibers that you'll be loading in bulk on the 650, then have an alternative for the calibers you don't shoot enough to justify the caliber conversion expense.

To each their own. That's what makes reloading/shooting so fun.

i did 3 five gallon buckets of brass if I recall. 

Tumbled for about an hour to get mud etc off the cases.

deprimed on 650

wet tumbled with plenty of lemishine and car wash/wax

dried under a fan

i worked about two full weeks on it. I'm retired and still found it just took too much time.

[mikeinctown]

Not going to argue about the wet vs dry tumbling, though with the wet you won't be breathing in ANY of the bad stuff. As mentioned, skip the powder check. You'll be standing over the press anyway seating the bullets and it is so easy to just glance into the case to make sure the powder is there. Also, with the auto indexing, it is very hard to do a double charge. IMHO, much harder than a 550 for example where you may not manually turn the shell plate. I'll disagree with the others about the quick change kits. Even if you have to inspect the charge before you start, if you haven't touched anything, that could take 3 minutes, vs sitting there and dialing in the adjustments every time. Plus the dies all stay in the tool head so you have an entire assembly ready to swap.

[mayassa]

If you plan on loading 38 Super plan on going strait to super comp and get the 223 shell conversion.  Go to www.starlinebrass.com

 

38 Super Comp Brass: The .38 Super Comp is a heavy duty rimless 38 Super. Similar internal capacity to 38 Super. Designed to enhance feeding reliability in high capacity magazines of competition raceguns chambered for .38 Super. May require minor extractor tuning in some firearms. When using Dillon press .223 shell plate works best where applicable.

 

1 powder check system per loader it can easily transfer between heads

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by mayassa

[BeerBaron]

A couple of things.

I agree with sarge. buy the lee 4 die sets for your 3 calibers. cheaper and in my experience do a better job. 

my advice for easy brass cleaning for a new reloader is the lyman pro1200 tumbler. all you need to add is a bucket. it comes with a built in separator and comes with free media (which is already treated and does an amazing job). much faster and easier than wet tumbling and gives excellent results.

for the 3 calibres you'll want to buy 2 quick change kits. these include toolhead and powder measure.

you don't need the 38 super caliber conversion. as your press comes for 9mm/super the bottom parts (shell plate and buttons) already fit both 9 and super. As do the small case feed parts (body collar, case feed adapter etc).

you don't need the extra toolhead you have down the bottom of your list. the machine comes with 1 toolhead and your quick change kits each come with one. that's a total of 3 for 9, super and 40.

The bench wrench is 'ok'. if you do go lee dies it's not a bad idea to buy the wrench as from memory it comes with some dillon lock rings too which you'll need for the lee dies anyway.

my advice is skip these parts:

bullet tray
strong mount

You only need the strong mount if you find the press is too low. The bullet tray you definitely don't need if you don't have the strong mount. without the strong mount the shell plate is nice and close to the bench for easy bullet placement. 

Plus if you get a bullet feeder in the future the bullet tray becomes kind of redundant.

I do recommend the roller handle (which you have).

I also strongly recommend you buy the inline fabrication LED light kit for 650.

the quick change kits are the easiest way to setup for calibre changes. they come with a toolhead which you setup with your dies and they come with a powder measure. they also have a toolhead stand to hold the stuff when not in use. so no need to buy extra toolheads.

I don't think the powder check is a good buy but some people like it as some re-assurance. 

[kneelingatlas]

Mr Bullet Feeder will change your life!

Early in my reloading days I had lots of calibers and changed over a lot and got sick of it quick.  I wound up selling everything but the 9mms; now I load 9 minor and 9 major on two different die heads so I don't have to change anything.  Powder checks are a waste of a station, just get used to looking into the cases as you index the shell plate.

When I first heard about shooters with multiple presses for different calibers I thought they were crazy, now I understand

[Jimk60]

Plus 1 on the Lee die sets, the Lee FCD is worth its weight in gold. Solved chambering problems for me.

Check out the parts available for the 650 from In Line Fabrication

Highly recommend their Ergo handle.

I have the Dillon Riser, but all reports are that the InLine is better.  Your press may not fit on your bench, if mounted directly, depending on how your bench is constructed. For that reason you may need the press mount.

The LED light is a must.

The Mr. Bullet feeder is expensive. There are gravity feed options from Lee and Hornady are good. The Bully Adapter allows the Lee feeder to be used with a hornady feed die.

You can check out Bully Adapter for options.

I use the gravity feeder for lubed lead bullets. They don't work well in my DIY feeder.

I also highly recommend Billet tool heads from Tom Sziler, Join the Dillon Reloaders - The Blue Group and search for Tom. His billet toolheads are $25 for a 550 and $30 for a 650. There are other billet heads out there, but I don't think any of them are equal to Tom's. I have 5. He will also engrave the front with the caliber, or leave blank.

Wet needle cleaning is the only way to go. it can be a lot of work if you have a small tumbler and a large amount of brass as Sarge did. I have cleaned over 25K cases in the last 2 years. I use Wash and Wax with Carnuba instead of dish soap. For pistol cases it leaves a slick surface, and I never have to lube the ultra clean cases. I have tried other Wash and Wax's without Carnuba, and they did not work as well. I have cases I cleaned 2 years ago that look like they were cleaned yesterday.

Always remember, ask 10 reloader's a question, and you will get 11 different answers!

Edited September 1, 2016 by Jimk60

[BeerBaron]

Those Tom Szilier toolheads are available at http://www.cncshooter.com/ 

They do look very, very nice. I might try one. Price is very competitive considering it includes engraving.

I currently use the whidden gunworks toolheads (with the uniquetek bolt system) and find them fantastic. press runs smoother and OAL is definitely tighter. I like being able to bolt the toolhead down. http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1333 

I also agree that the inline fabrications light kit is a must have. yes it's $40 and yes you can piece together a light kit for $20. However it is high quality, has a convenient switch and includes power adapter and neat cabling and it works very well. I think it's easily worth the $40. http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/lighting/products/skylighttm-led-lighting-kit-for-the-dillon-650 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by BeerBaron