Need Help 9mm Or 9x23

[Joe Robinson]

I was hoping that some could help me out . Right now Ihave 2 sti open guns one is a shorty (stinger) both in 9mm. I was thinking of having them rechambered to 9x23. The reason I am thinking about this is the stinger has two barrel ports wich makes the gun shoot flater but this only leaves one load for the gun wich is 9.2gr of hs6 loaded at 1.170. right now I am having problems geting it to work. Some open shooter I have talk to sugested going to 9x23. Could realy use the advice is it worth going to 9x23? Or is it just more problems with a diferent cal.

[PaulW]

Please explain what you mean when you say you are having troubles getting it to work.

[Joe Robinson]

sorry easer to speak then tipe. Some of the problems I have and are having are buldge brass, bullets tipping in the case , rounds not chambring , rounds getting stuck on the feed ramp , mag problems (now cured with grams tuned svi mags). I have tried difrent cures , had the feed ramp lengthened chamber polished. I should have said this in my first poast I am new to open .

[eerw]

in 9x23 your source of brass is more limited..either WIN 9x23 ( incredibly expensive and is made in specified numbers in the year..then you have to wait) or Starline 9mm supercomp..

That is probably the biggest hurdle..

I have two open guns in 9x23..and a stockpile of brass..the WIN brass is really thick and very easy to make loads for...the guns and cartridge run great, mags are easy to make work..

I am the only one in my section to use 9x23..all others are using 38SC, 38 super or 9mm

do you have a good IPSCsmith around..that could check out your guns and reloads..

[Little Bill]

I would have a known USPSA gunsmith take a look at the gun set-up before changing/modifying the barrel. You may have series of things slightly out of spec, or other mechanical issues preventing reliability.

You also need to make sure that the ammunition that you produce and shoot is good quality. For example, good brass of known firings, properly sized to hold the bullet, bullet seated evenly, and NO crimp. I like the Lee "U" re-size die, a polished Dillon powder drop/expander, a Redding Competition seating die, and a Dillon crimp die. In my opinion, the 9mm major can be more sensitive to bad reloading practices (too much crimp, bullet cock-eyed, bullet set-back, etc), so try to be vigilant when loading.

[jjanglin]

You can try using True Blue powder it works pretty good in 9mm.

make sure you have a good bell on the case before you put the bullet in to be seated.

Lube your cases= 9mm is a tapered case and some dies will bulge them at

the bottom if you dont lube the jcases.

Call me Ill try to help you out.

Jim Anglin

Sailors custom Pistols

402 451 0797

[benny hill]

I think the barrel is to short to try to burn all the powder that you will need in a larger case to make major. Slower powder in the larger cases need more barrel.

[old shooter]

I'm with Jim on this one. Try to work up a load with True Blue. There are a bunch of short guns out there with bbl holes that make major with TB and run. I would get my blaster checked out. I don't think it is the caliber or load.

Mike

[Alan Meek]

Warlock,

check the data listed here at this thread, 9 Major Load Data

You might also try to shorten the OAL. (You did not mention the bullet type or weight)

The loads that I worked up were shot through bot of my Major 9's with 4.5" barrels, and no porting

Hope that helps

Alan

[Joe Robinson]

Thanks for all the advice it realy helps .Spent alot of time yesterday on the phone and going to my gun smith wich is not easy thing to do. He is in the us and I live in canada.The biggest problem we are coming acrosed is the glock brass.Called the guy from case pro he will not have any case pros till mabey september. I tride to get my hands on some true blue ,I realy would like to try this powder every body that I talk to yesterday said it is the powder to use. The problem is that ther are no dealers in canada and no body in us will ship true blue to me.

I have a nebie question for you what powder is sp2.

9major-caspian I have been keeping an eye on your load data for a little while now, and have tried alot of your loads in my gun. The thing is the stinger bbl is 3.9" befor the comp plus I added two bbl holes so it is only about 3" befor the first port that takes a way alot of powders for me I think.

limited is so much easer but open is sooooooo much more fun.

[Joe Robinson]

sorry 9major-caspian the bullets I am using are montana gold 124 cmj

[Flexmoney]

Brass

Shooting Major 9 is a high pressure task. You probably don't want to be using just any old 9mm range brass. And, you might not want to be using the same brass, over and over, until you lose it.

Once fired brass, out of a known supply, is likely fine (and cheap). Stuff you pick up (randomly) off the range, that might not be the answer.

Once-fired glock brass should be fine. As long as it is good stuff to start with.

It, like other brass, will need to be properly re-sized. I doubt you need a case-pro, but yuo might not be able to do it with Dillon's standard dies either. The Dillon sizing die has a funnel-like opening...great for getting brass to feed in the progressive machine, not so great for sizing ALL the way down the brass. I'd look at a Lee 4-die set (which includes a FCD for the last station).

With the Lee dies, your ammo should pass the case check gauge (or chamber check). You will need to check each and every round...at least until you know from experience that you can load over 1,000 rounds and not get any failures. Then, you can cut back to just checking your match ammo.

If your brass won't pass the gauge (you do have a gauge, right?) after going to Lee dies, then you may not have your dies setup correctly. They need to just touch the shell plate with the press handle at full travel. You will need dummy-rounds in each station of the press when you set up your dies (so the shell plate doesn't tip around on you). Also, you had better check this with your Dillon dies...they may be just fine.

If you still aren't getting sized all the way down the case (to pass the gauge), then it has been said that you can buy a shell plate from Dillon and they will mill it so that the dies can get a bit lower.

Lube

Always use the Hornady OneShot, or similar case lube.

Ramp

I think you said you lengthened your feed ramp? That means that you had the ramp cut to ease the angle, right? Which also means that you have less case support under the back of the round (the 6 o'clock postion)?

Loading 9 to Major means high pressure. You need the chamber to support as much of the case as possible. You want to be real careful here.

Bullets

Many of the shooter going with 9 Major are doing so with bullet of 124g of heavier. More than a few are running 135g bullets. Your MG 124's seem to be a good choice.

Stinger

I don't know about that Stinger platform. I am not even sure what STI was thinking when they came out with it. I don't see it as a good platform for USPSA Major. It may be just the ticket for a Minor gun...for Steel Challenge and such.

I am sure somebody will come along and say they are using a Stinger and getting along just fine for USPSA Major. But, I'll bet those shooter will be few and far between. I can't think of any top Open shooter that is sporting one. Heck, you can't get (most of) the top shooters to consider a shorty...let alone a mini-shorty.

OAL and Crimp

These are things you will have to play with to gt right. If you have to load long, then you might end up having to use more crimp to keep that bullet in the case.

Powder

HS6 really ought to be the powder that proves to work.

SP2 is a powder made by Vectan (Nobel Sport). Great stuff for open, it is real fine and doesn't over-fill the case...but, you can't seem to get any in North America anymore.

[edit: I know nothing about True Blue.]

Edited April 23, 2005 by Flexmoney

[jjanglin]

Guys:

I use 7.7 of true blue with 124 zero hollowpoints at oal= 1.150 for a 9mm

major load it makes a 168 P.F. .

Ive used it in 9x23 38 super also its a nice load similiar to SP-2

in consistancy.

For the 38 super N340 is a little more accuarate at 50 yards other

than that its pretty fair load.

Jim

[Alan Meek]

Warlock,

Have you contacted Western Powders? They are the distributor of the True Blue and other Ramshot Powders they might be able to help you find a source in Canada.

Western Powder

I do not know if you can get any SP2 in canada, but if you can you might also give that a try.

For my 9 Major I purchased a 9mm Undersize die from EGW and that helped my sizing of brass,

Also, I would contact STI and ask Dave what his recommendation for a load is. (if you have not done that already).

Alan.

[Joe Robinson]

I called ramshot yesterday afternoon the do not have any body that sells ther powder for them in canada. I have heard of the EGW u die in other poast Iwas going to call on monday to see about getting one.

Once again I would like to thank everybody that has poasted with ways to help me out, I put this question on two difrent forums this is the only on that any body hased helped me. Brian grate job on having a place like this out ther.

[Chriss Grube]

Try Vit 3n37 or 3n38. Both worked well in my gun when I was running the tribrid barrel. The EGW die will solve the problem with 40 brass. Never saw a problem with 9 glock brass and I've shoot a boatload of it. What OAL are you loading to that the bullets are tipping? Sounds more like a oper error when loading. Spring weight? Have you tried running factory ammo through the gun? Dies? Need to list your whole reloading set up as it is probably more likely the problem than anything else.

[dansy]

I'm new to open this year and I'm a C shooter and yes with a Stinger 9 major....I used HS-6 powder and MG 124 bullets, I did have some extracting problem that were fix with a Aftec extractor, I also installed a EGW ejector....doesn't spin the brass as much on the way out. My gun is at the smith right now getting a slide racker and a trigger group.

I'm using Wolf once-fired brass....for match and can re-load at least 4 times for practice...but it's so cheap....I also used EGW dies on a spare head and put all my brass through before reloading....that way the powder doesn't around when I'm loading and get very closes ES...I'm also using less powder then you are at about 8.5 gr for 170PF.

Cheers Daniel

[Joe Robinson]

Chriss Grube I tride 3n37 & 3n38, case capacity was not there for those powders.

My setup is a dillon super 1050 dillon die set with a lee factory crip die as my crimp. I was loading to 1.170 now i am trying 1.145 & 1.150 with reduced powder charges and working my way up. My spring is a shortin 10lbs on a shortin one peice guid rod. I am putting the recoilmaster back in with the new shortin loads to see if that will help.

dansy when you said that you are using wolf once fired brass is thar wolf from ontario or is that wolf as in the steel case stuff.

[Chriss Grube]

Trust me the powder capacity is there for 3n37 and 3n38. I ran 3n37 for 2 years before I switched to 3n38 at the end of 03. I've been running 3n38 since. Try a heavier spring. I was running and 11 in mine before I switched to the light RM. I run and OAL of 1.190. Feeds fine in the SVI mags. If you can't get it running then give George Smith a call. I heard lots of guys having trouble with 9's, Mine ran 100% from the start when George built it back in 02.

[Joe Robinson]

Criss Grube how loang is the bbl that you are using the 3n37 before you hit your first port? What is the charge you are using with 3n37? I will go back and try any thing right now.

[Cameron]

Warlock,

Sure your not measuring in metric????

[Brazos Custom]

See if STI will sell you another trubor 3.9 barrel and install it in 38 super with no barrel ports. Keep the 9mm barrel to use for steel.

[Joe Robinson]

that is it I have been forgetting to do the conversion . Iknew you would get to the bottom of this for me Cameron.

Bob I have called STI about a nother bbl they told me that they will not be selling new bbl's for the stinger till about october or november.

I'm looking at it this way it is giving me some thing to do after work. So I'm up to try any thing. Once again guys thanks for all the help.

[dansy]

Chriss Grube I tride 3n37 & 3n38, case capacity was not there for those powders.

My setup is a dillon super 1050 dillon die set with a lee factory crip die as my crimp. I was loading to 1.170 now i am trying 1.145 & 1.150 with reduced powder charges and working my way up. My spring is a shortin 10lbs on a shortin one peice guid rod. I am putting the recoilmaster back in with the new shortin loads to see if that will help.

dansy when you said that you are using wolf once fired brass is thar wolf from ontario or is that wolf as in the steel case stuff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ONTARIO

[Chriss Grube]

Sorry took so long to reply, work has been nuts. It was a tribrid barrel maybe 2" to the first port. ended up around 8.3 with 3n37. Up over 9 grains with 3n38.