youngun Posted October 30, 2001 Share Posted October 30, 2001 I've been doing a lot of dry-firing, and it's definitely paying off. But whenver it's not "takt up the slack, squeeze, squeeze, bang!" but more like "pow! pow! pow!" it becomes obvious how little I've really learned to isolate that pointer finger. When I dry-fire multiple shots, or just press the trigger four or five times, trying to hold the soght picture/alignment, it moves left. I'm feeling around, trying to see how these muscles can cooperate, but I could use a few tips, please! Should I be planting the backstrap into the meat of my palm, under the pinky sort-of, or rather in the crease between the "thumb meat" and "pinky meat"? Is the trigger finger leveraging off of the bottom knuckle or the base of the thumb (or somewhere else?) This is for a stock .45, by the way, if it matters. Thanks for any input! Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 If you have a .45, is it 1911 style? If so, the trigger pull should be decent at about 5-6 pounds. The best practice I get at dry firing is using a revolver with a very heavy pull (about 16 pounds). When you can drag that back without the gun moving, you know the trigger finger muscle is isolated. The right hand goes onto the grip with the backstrap in the middle of the web betwen the thumb and first finger with moderate clamping pressure on the front and rear grip strap. The left hand goes directly in front of the right hand (NOT UNDER) and wraps tightly actually clamping tighter than the right. The bottom of the gun should not be covered. The trigger finger should be inserted so that the trigger is at the joint between the tip and middle of the finger, or on the center of the tip... it depends on how light the trigger is. The trigger finger should be out away from the gun grip (not riding it). Good shooters "stage" the trigger by pressing lightly to get to the edge of the break point. Then they line up the sights and break the trigger. When learning, pull the trigger smoothly back and keep it back after it fires. Do not anticipate the firing or try to stop the gun's rise. A good shot will see the gun lift gently straight up from recoil. If the gun moves at all when you squeeve the trigger, you will not hit the target. It usually means you are clamping the grip with your hand when you squeeze. In time, you will be able to stage and break the trigger with the gun dead still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted November 22, 2001 Share Posted November 22, 2001 The main thing here is to watch the sights as you press the trigger. They will tell you what you are doing, right or wrong. Top shooters actually pull the trigger in different ways depending on their 'type' Robbie and Jerry B. pull the trigger completely differently. And since Robbie won thje Limited title this year and Jerry the Open, I doubt it makes much difference. However you pull the trigger, only use the amount of force required to overcome the sear/hammer engagement. Prep and squeeze, or tap/slap, watch the sights, see how they move when you press the trigger, and you will see/feel where the inconsistancies are. Put what you see together with what you are feeling as you press and your body can figure out how to do it without disrupting the alignment. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 26, 2001 Share Posted November 26, 2001 Perfect! And don't forget to really watch the relationships of those sights while you're shooting as well. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myorke Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Just one other thing to add to this. The goal is to break the shot without disturbing the sight alignment to the point where it drastically affects the shot. So, I can yank/jerk the hell out of my trigger at 7yds and still expect a center hit on the target. At 25yds this is not as reliable but still quite feasable. (BTW, it's probably important to note that jerking/yanking the trigger is NOT the same as pushing or flinching.) The key to all of this is to ensure that the yank/jerk is directly rearward. Not to the side, not up, and not down - straight back only. As Pat stated, you can determine if you yanking directly toward the rear based upon what your sights are doing during a dry-fire session. I don't really prep the trigger at all. I just pull it. The quality of the shot I desire will determine how hard or soft I pull the trigger. But rest assured, at close up targets (15yds and in) I'm jerking/yanking the trigger and still hitting A's. Having been "raised" by bullseye shooters I would never have thought this to be possible (jerking the trigger.) In order to prove this concept to me, TGO had me aim at the target with my finger outside of the trigger guard. He stood to the side and put his finger in the trigger guard. When I had sight alignment, he hit (yes, hit) the trigger with his finger. Note, he was hitting it so hard that the gun was flipping back much harder than normal. In addition to this you could tell he was hurting his finger when he did this. So, he was more-or-less jerking the trigger for me. He did this numerous times. Guess what? Nothing but a tight group of A's in the target (I think we were at 10yds.) You can jerk the trigger and still shoot an A. Just make sure the "jerk" is straight to the rear. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 Quote: from benos on 4:27 pm on Nov. 26, 2001 Perfect! And don't forget to really watch the relationships of those sights while you're shooting as well. be OOps, I meant to imply that you should be watching the sights at ANY time you are pulling the trigger, whether dryfiring or during live fire. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 mike, The Great One is the greatest at the "slap." Like you said, as long as you don't shoot the gun with your entire hand, you can "get away" with quite a bit of trigger finger jerking. It's when we shoot the gun with our whole hand that we start - "crackin' the whip." Big loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted December 17, 2001 Share Posted December 17, 2001 This is GREAT, as long as you move the trigger straight to the rear and the rest of your body/grip is a ransom rest it doesn't matter if you slap or carefully press the trigger straight back as long as you press it straight back without moving the sights. So simple but yet so hard... I can't believe I am getting all this GREAT info for FREE. I really love this resource, thankyou Brian. I really love the "hell I was there" forum, It kindof puts the actual shooting in perspective once you go through stuff like that. You may not always have a warm meal and a hot shower, etc. before every match. Good Stuff. thanks (Edited by bird at 7:35 pm on Dec. 16, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Kinda late, but I hope this gets read. I was trained in the "slow, steady squeeze" school of trigger control. But what I've found is that I have to modify the placement of my trigger finger on the trigger to achieve a straight-to-the-rear pull. If I put the very tip of my finger on the trigger, the sights jerk right when the shot breaks. When I pull with the base of my first digit (right before the first crease in my finger), the jerk goes away. Pretty easy fix, but a lot of self-proclaimed pistol gurus out there say you MUST pull with the very tip of your finger. Usually just laying your finger across the trigger as it natrually wants to rest is a better first aproximation, and you can modify from there. And really, all marksmanship comes down to: "align the sights on the target, and then pull the trigger without disturbing the alignment of the sights" now on to the next chapter. (paraphrased from Glenn Zediker, "The Competetive AR-15") Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 DogmaDog, The actual length of your trigger may be a factor in your case. Might be worth checking into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Right. What's important is that you actually pull the trigger straight to the rear without moving/disturbing the established alignment. How you do it doesn't matter. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Dogmadog, Flex is right on with trigger length. I have 2 paras. One is an old wide frame and has a short trigger, new one is skinny and I had to fit longer trigger. So simple. Shame I did not figure it out myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted April 23, 2002 Share Posted April 23, 2002 Gents, I'll have to try experimenting with that. I also grew up in the military school of marksmanship, where you just shot the weapon they issued you, and didn't have a choice about the trigger or sights or anything. I'm still overwhelmed by all the possibilities (and certainly by the COST of all the possibilities!). I don't find that my finger placement is especially problematic...I do jerk a shot once in a while, but usually I miss because I'm trying to shoot faster than I'm capable...it's more of a "trigger discipline" problem than a "trigger control" problem. I've also heard arguments that you get more mechanical advantage the further down from the fingertip you touch the trigger, so less force required, and hence less tendency to move the sights, pulling with the 2nd digit, even! Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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